CDR: Late-postmarked ballots from ZOG-occupied Palestine
Now we hear of calls urging dual-citizenship residents of ZOG-occupied Palestine to send in absentee ballots to Florida, especially for the estimated 400 dual-citizenship, or visiting tourists, from Palm Beach County. The claim is that if they can "prove" they were unable to have them postmarked by the time polls closed in Florida, due to the violence or whatever, that maybe they will still be allowed in. (And I wouldn't put it past the ZOG to rig the postmarks and then put the ballots on a fast jet to Florida.) According to a Reuters story, " Friday November 10 12:52 PM ET U.S. Absentee Voters in Mideast 'Unknown Quantity' By Danielle Haas JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Absentee voters living in Israel and Palestinian territories could influence the outcome of the razor-edge U.S. presidential election but are unlikely to be able to vote late, a U.S. embassy official said on Friday. Some analysts had speculated that voters registered in Florida but living in Israel and Palestinian-ruled areas could still send in ballot papers if they proved they were unable to postmark them by the November 7 deadline. " -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
So do military personnel who are officially Florida residents get Extra Slack on their absentee ballots if they're overseas? They're as likely to vote for the Ruling Party than Israelis are. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
At 4:13 PM -0800 11/10/00, Bill Stewart wrote:
So do military personnel who are officially Florida residents get Extra Slack on their absentee ballots if they're overseas? They're as likely to vote for the Ruling Party than Israelis are.
I have no idea. The solution has been obvious for a long time: absentee ballots must be received by the close of business on the polling day. Those who know they are going to be out of their voting area must mail their ballots in time to arrive. This eliminates this particular hazard. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
In <a05010416b632437994d9@[207.111.241.50]>, on 11/10/00 at 06:32 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:
I have no idea.
The solution has been obvious for a long time: absentee ballots must be received by the close of business on the polling day. Those who know they are going to be out of their voting area must mail their ballots in time to arrive. This eliminates this particular hazard.
Eliminate them completely would be an even simpler solution. Too many people give elections the proper respect that they deserve. You go and plan your vacation at voting time too bad you made your choice. The only ones that have any legitimate excuse for not being in the town that they are registered to vote is those that are either on military deployment or in the diplomatic corps. Polling stations can be set up on military bases and US Embassies to accommodate the majority that fall into those catagories. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://www.openpgp.net Geiger Consulting Data Security & Cryptology Consulting Programming, Networking, Analysis PGP for OS/2: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html E-Secure: http://www.openpgp.net/esecure.html ---------------------------------------------------------------
At 7:46 PM -0500 11/10/00, William H. Geiger III wrote:
In <a05010416b632437994d9@[207.111.241.50]>, on 11/10/00 at 06:32 PM, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> said:
I have no idea.
The solution has been obvious for a long time: absentee ballots must be received by the close of business on the polling day. Those who know they are going to be out of their voting area must mail their ballots in time to arrive. This eliminates this particular hazard.
Eliminate them completely would be an even simpler solution. Too many people give elections the proper respect that they deserve. You go and plan your vacation at voting time too bad you made your choice. The only ones that have any legitimate excuse for not being in the town that they are registered to vote is those that are either on military deployment or in the diplomatic corps. Polling stations can be set up on military bases and US Embassies to accommodate the majority that fall into those catagories.
I would support this as well. The craziest aspect of "absentee ballots" is that some people move away from their original registration places and then vote absentee for years, even decades. My father and mother, for example, voted absentee with a California ballot for 15 years of living in Virginia, France, and Maryland. Only when our family lived in France for a year could they have justifiably claimed to be "absentee residents." And this is not rare. Absentee ballots are a lot more than being about people who are temporarily away from their homes. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
At 07:46 PM 11/10/00 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
Eliminate them completely would be an even simpler solution. Too many people give elections the proper respect that they deserve. You go and plan your vacation at voting time too bad you made your choice. The only ones that have any legitimate excuse for not being in the town that they are registered to vote is those that are either on military deployment or in the diplomatic corps. Polling stations can be set up on military bases and US Embassies to accommodate the majority that fall into those catagories.
Oh, nonsense. Sometimes you've got business to do. Sometimes your family is sick. Sometimes you're sick. Oregon's vote-by-mail thing was interesting, if a bit slow, though as with the Internet, it offers a range of choices for voting early and often that differ from the go-to-the-polls ones. BTW, did you leave out a "don't" in that second sentence? Or did you mean people really *do* give government the (dis)respect it deserves. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Bill Stewart wrote:
At 07:46 PM 11/10/00 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
Eliminate them completely would be an even simpler solution. Too many people give elections the proper respect that they deserve. You go and plan your vacation at voting time too bad you made your choice. The only ones that have any legitimate excuse for not being in the town that they are registered to vote is those that are either on military deployment or in the diplomatic corps. Polling stations can be set up on military bases and US Embassies to accommodate the majority that fall into those catagories.
Oh, nonsense. Sometimes you've got business to do. Sometimes your family is sick. Sometimes you're sick.
Sometimes you're in school. I am currently in Massachusetts, but I'm registered in Nevada. My absentee ballot contains numerous NV state questions which I'd like to vote on; a registration here in MA would not be the same. In my case, I'm a transplant to Nevada - I don't actually have strong opinions on most of the state questions (with some specific exceptions). For someone who lived in one state for most of his or her life, then left for school in another, however, absentee balloting seems to have a stronger case. -David Molnar
Tim May wrote:
The solution has been obvious for a long time: absentee ballots must be received by the close of business on the polling day. Those who know they are going to be out of their voting area must mail their ballots in time to arrive. This eliminates this particular hazard.
When I was listening to the news last Tuesday it took me a while to realise that this *wasn;'t* the case. It seems so sort of obvious you'd think it would have been adopted years ago. Back in the 1940s and 50s bookies in England used to take bets on photofinishes. One man made himself a fortune, by always standing exactly on the finish line waiting for a photo-finishs in which the horse farthest from him had crossed the line first. The bookies stopped taking his bets. In UK (for what its worth) postal votes have to be in by a fixed date that is up to a week before the election day. They are opened in the presence of the candidate (or their agent), counted, then the returning officer and the agents agree on the total, fill in a form, sign it, and the ballot papers and the forms are sealed (hey, a protocol! Almost on-topic!) Spoiled ballots are also handled by the candidates agents on the night of the election. They stand across the tables from where the votes are being counted (hand counting of course, none of your new-fangled stuff) and are allowed to look but not touch. Any dubious papers are discussed. Usually you manage to agree on how to count them. Ken
At 11:28 AM +0000 11/13/00, Ken Brown wrote:
Tim May wrote:
The solution has been obvious for a long time: absentee ballots must be received by the close of business on the polling day. Those who know they are going to be out of their voting area must mail their ballots in time to arrive. This eliminates this particular hazard.
When I was listening to the news last Tuesday it took me a while to realise that this *wasn;'t* the case. It seems so sort of obvious you'd think it would have been adopted years ago. ...
Yeah, it's bizarre. Absentee ballots are still arriving from overseas locations (and other states, though the USPS is pretty efficient these days and most should have arrived by last Thursday if they were actually postmarked by Tuesday). Some of the ballots from Qatar, Zimbabwe, Mongolia, Israel, and all of the other various places are presumably still sitting in post offices in Dushambe, Timbuktu, and Haifa. And some are on transport planes. And some are now in the post offices in Florida. Hell, Yahood Barak may have even brought in some of the Florida absentee ballots on ZOG Force One. Any doubts about what Shin Bet and Mossad managed to do with those absentee ballots once the closeness of the election was established while the absentee ballots were still on ZOG soil? I was amused to see the "high security" on the absentee ballots received by the election offices: a wooden box with a _Masterlock_ key lock, one of those $3.99-for-two locks one sees at Home Depot or the local hardware store. Forget "National Technical Means" to get through these locks...any two-bit thief could pick one of these locks and either alter the ballots or insert new ones. (Spoiling the ballots of one's opponent would be a lot easier.) The election may hinge (see my post on "Causality and Close Elections") on these uncounted absentee ballots sitting in Florida. Of course, it is now looking very likely that the "hand count in heavily Democrat-trending counties" will prevail. As all numerate folks have noted, resampling of selected counties is inherently biased. The Democrats _will_ pick up a few thousand more votes over what Bush picks up, just as the Republicans might have picked up a few thousand more votes over the Democrats had a Republican-leaning county like Duval County been resampled manually. Which is just as well. I'd rather see Al Gore and his New York tag team of Alan Dershowitz and Lawrence Tribe steal this election. Then we can get on with the business of "scorced earth" and sending hundreds of thousands of these criminals to the wall. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Tim May wrote:
The claim is that if they can "prove" they were unable to have them postmarked by the time polls closed in Florida, due to the violence or whatever, that maybe they will still be allowed in.
how can you be unable to do something as simple as sending a letter by a deadline you know like several months ahead?
On Thu, 16 Nov 2000, Tom Vogt wrote:
Tim May wrote:
The claim is that if they can "prove" they were unable to have them postmarked by the time polls closed in Florida, due to the violence or whatever, that maybe they will still be allowed in.
how can you be unable to do something as simple as sending a letter by a deadline you know like several months ahead?
Becuase the queueing delays aren't constant and there is a loss factor. In general the simplest way to explain it is: people are strange. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (7)
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Bill Stewart -
dmolnar -
Jim Choate -
Ken Brown -
Tim May -
Tom Vogt -
William H. Geiger III