Re: Singers jailed for lyrics
At 02:52 PM 12/26/03 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
On 26-Dec-03, at 12:37 PM, Eric Cordian wrote:
A Berlin criminal court sentenced 38-year-old Michael Regener to 40 months in prison after a six-month trial that tested the boundaries of free expression in a nation with strict laws against hate speech.
Of course, that should be "a nation with strict laws against free speech."
Crying "Hate Speech" is the last resort of people who cannot debate what is being said and convince anyone.
The German law clearly defines what is hate speech. It is not an easy task as you can see in a six month trial.
Germany, or any State that restricts words or thought, needs a regime change with extreme prejudice.
Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well.
Are there exceptions for Buddhists and Amerinds? Moron. And I would like
to add that most of these laws were made up by the allies (read US and Britain).
If so, then Germany should have the balls to discover freedom --adopt the US Constitution for instance. The US can't counter such a move.
There is no "ultimate" free speech as the US promises,
Not in Germany, obviously. In the US, yes. Our founders trusted the Volk; your conquerors (eg the US) let your shepards (eg your govt) neuter the sheep (ie you). Fuck censors dead. Freedom is only tested when its unconfortable, baby. Maybe you will find this list too uncomfortable, Kalus.
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
If so, then Germany should have the balls to discover freedom --adopt the US Constitution for instance. The US can't counter such a move.
I'm sure it would at least as ineffective as the same Constitution is right here in the good ole USA... :-(
There is no "ultimate" free speech as the US promises,
Not in Germany, obviously. In the US, yes.
We are obviously living in separate (although close to parallel) universes. The USA does NOT practice "free speech" - "ultimate" or otherwise.
Our founders trusted the Volk;
Yes. But the Volken have clearly abdicated this trust, and now the entire mechanism is lost to the sands of history. -- J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org
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The German law clearly defines what is hate speech. It is not an easy task as you can see in a six month trial.
Germany, or any State that restricts words or thought, needs a regime change with extreme prejudice.
Then I guess you better start liberating the world. Pretty much any country in the world has a law against hate speech.
Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well.
Are there exceptions for Buddhists and Amerinds? Moron.
All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D".
And I would like
to add that most of these laws were made up by the allies (read US and Britain).
If so, then Germany should have the balls to discover freedom --adopt the US Constitution for instance. The US can't counter such a move.
They could actually until ~ 10 years ago. Germany (even though considered independend) wasn't. By international law a piece was never brokered, it was just a cease fire. Of course now they could, but Germany still is a bit jumpy about it's past.
There is no "ultimate" free speech as the US promises,
Not in Germany, obviously. In the US, yes. Our founders trusted the Volk; your conquerors (eg the US) let your shepards (eg your govt) neuter the sheep (ie you).
Nice... So in the US you have : - - Walmart which censors music to make it "clean". - - Blockbuster who edits movies (or has in the past, not sure if they still do) - - TV Stations who edit movies - - Censors at TV stations who "watch" over the programming. - - What about the FCC who restricts what can be aired?
Fuck censors dead.
I agree.
Freedom is only tested when its unconfortable, baby.
I agree again, but the problem is that even in the good ol'e US of A it is not tested.
Maybe you will find this list too uncomfortable, Kalus.
Doubtful. I don't have an issue with discussion if both sides can get their say. I do not agree that driving people like Nazis into the underground accomplishes anything. Their ideas have to be looked at in the light and then society can answer. Problem with that is: 99% of people give a fuck about discussion or ideas. they want to be told what to do. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.0.3 iQA/AwUBP+zW1WlCnxcrW2uuEQIfqgCcDMvh3WH9dspQ/Tf43a9nT8z521AAnjuO 0aujI5ksmZhQ23+cJNPEzVCZ =K0rP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Dec 26, 2003, at 4:48 PM, Michael Kalus wrote:
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The German law clearly defines what is hate speech. It is not an easy task as you can see in a six month trial.
Germany, or any State that restricts words or thought, needs a regime change with extreme prejudice.
Then I guess you better start liberating the world. Pretty much any country in the world has a law against hate speech.
Some do, some don't. The U.S., for all its oft-cited faults, doesn't. It's not a violation of any national or state (California) law to argue that negroes are monkeys, that Germany's main failure was to miss getting the last 100K Jews (the main cause of their problems today, as the dreidl-spinners yammer about Nazism while arguing for socialism), and so on. One or two states in the U.S. tried to implement "hate speech" laws, but the Supremes, in a rare moment when the negroes and Jews were outnumbered, said "Go back and read the First Amendment, you fucking dweebs and Hebes."
Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well.
Are there exceptions for Buddhists and Amerinds? Moron.
All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D".
You've been brainwashed by your Yid masters. The swastika goes back to very, very old Hindu, Buddhist, and Taoist symbology. Hitler read about it in some magazine and adopted it as his own. You make me sick. I hope the ovens are fired up again and you are sent to one for a nice, long, _very_ hot shower. --Tim May
At 07:48 PM 12/26/2003 -0500, Michael Kalus wrote:
Certain symbols (e.g. Swastika) are forbidden as well. Are there exceptions for Buddhists and Amerinds? Moron. All symbols that are related to Nazism. One of the reasons (if not the reason) why they banned "Wolfenstein 3D".
As Tim pointed out, the Swastika symbol had long use before the Nazis picked it up. I remember going into a temple in Guangzhou China which had three large Buddha statues with it on their chests, and some of the Native American cultures prominently weave it into baskets. In Asia it tends to be a sun symbol, or sometimes a moon symbol depending on which way it's pointing; in the Americas it tends to be a whirlwind symbol. If you can drag somebody into court for six months because you don't like their speech, that's a problem too. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen here in the US too, though more often for speech involving sex than violence, and certainly our new Attorney General John Ashcroft has no particular love for free speech. But you can only throw someone in jail by threatening violence, so it's hypocritical to say you're doing so to eliminate violent speech. A friend of mine was on the city council in a Southern California town where some Ku Klux Klan racist wanted to hold a march. He wasn't from around there, and didn't really have any local support - what he really wanted was for the town to ban his group from marching, so he could sue the town for violating his right to free speech. The town let him march, and had to bring out the police to make sure that nobody attacked him or his five or ten friends while they marched. It was the right thing to do, though she found it very frustrating. Sometimes you just have to let people be [pick an insult here...]
participants (5)
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Bill Stewart -
J.A. Terranson -
Major Variola (ret) -
Michael Kalus -
Tim May