Paul Robichaux believes we are being "dissolute" in discussing t-shirts and such when our noses should instead be against the grindstone (talking to journalists? huh?):

I assume everyone saw the message from Philip Mulivor here asking for our input on the issues related to anonymity and newsgathering. As of Friday afternoon, I was the only one to respond.

I can't help but think that we are being dissolute in discussing T-shirts, coffee mugs, et al when a *REAL* *LIVE* *JOURNALIST* came to the list asking for information and got almost zero response.

If we're looking at shirts which will raise people's awareness and provoke questions, that's great. Many of the slogans and designs, though, will be indecipherable to anyone who's not _already_ a cypherpunk. If these shirts are just a membership badge, like a DoD # in *.motorcycles, then IMNSHO we're wasting our time.

Not to sound snippy or flamish, but such calls for us to "get back to work" smack of the argument that goes like this: "How can people be doing X when there's still Y in the world?" - "How can people watch television when some people don't even have radios?" - "How can people own pets when people in Bangladesh are starving?" - "How can anyone own a computer workstation when some people lack even a PC?" - "How can Cypherpunks discuss t-shirts be discussed when journalists want answers?" And so on. Mostly these points boil down to the plaintive cry of "How can you have fun when others aren't?" That is, how can Cypherpunks pursue frivolous issues, at times, when we should be in our sled dog harnesses, pulling a heavy load? Well, man does not live by bread alone! All work and no play make Cypherpunks have a dull day. Ironically, many of us have already talked _a lot_ to journalists. For example, I spent about 5 hours each, on average, with Kevin Kelly ("Wired" editor, which helped with his "Crypto Rebels" cover story by Steven Levy, and his outstanding article on the "Technologies of Disconnection" in "Whole Earth Review"), with Steven Levy (for the aforementioned "Wired" article), and with Julian Dibbell of the "Village Voice" (for a forthcoming article--on the cover, I hear). Plus, phone conversations (a radio interview with Dave Mandl) and chats with some of them at "Cypherpunks" meetings. The same is true of Eric Hughes ("Newsweek" coverage, Richard Hart's t.v. program, the same articles as above, etc.), John Gilmore (contacts too numerous to mention!!!), John Draper, and others. Further, we have several journalists/article writers *here on this list*! Sandy Sandfort, Peter Wayner, Jude Milhon, Dave Mandl, are just some of them. (And Kevin Kelly, Julian Dibbell, Steven Levy, have been List subscribers at times in the past, and maybe still are.) Other List members are also making contacts (Paul Ferguson?), and Lance Dettweiler has posted the call for discussion with journalist Philip Mulivor on the alt.whistleblower list. (Lance speculates, correctly I think, that Mulivor has no Net access. If true, I question that Mulivor is such a high-priority journalistic target anyway. Maybe he is. But I'm sure enough folks will talk to him. The talk of mail programs and t-shirts is not likely to affect this.) Anyway, the danger is perhaps of journalistic _overexposure_, not underexposure. Perhaps people should blast me for wasting precious hours talking to Kelly, Levy, Dibbell, and others, when I could've *more* profitably spent the time studying "perl" and hence pulled the Cypherpunks sled a few more miles toward our distant goals. (I'm being facetious, of course, as I don't particularly _want_ to learn perl and become another Unix jock.) As the one who brought up the "Cypherpunks t-shirt" issue, I see nothing wrong with spending some time tossing ideas around on this. Most conferences (like "Hackers," "Crypto," etc.) produce some sort of t-shirt or hat or whatnot, and nobody seems all that perturbed that they are becoming "dissolute." (And some of these t-shirts were on display on the "Wired" cover, ironically.) Such things can produce an enthusiasm, an esprit d'corps, which keeps folks active and keeps them feeling part of something. I'm not saying I'll learn perl just because I have a Cypherpunks t-shirt, but I don't see the harm in spending some time thinking about it and perhaps even getting them made. Same with bumper stickers, fliers, and the like. The wonderful thing about distributed, decentralized systems like ours is that folks can work on what interests them. For some, it'll be whistleblowing. For others, new mail programs. And some will learn perl, some will try to crack PGP, and some will design logos for t-shirts. Some will even talk to journalists. In fact, some of us already _have_. I appreciated Paul's comments, even though I disagreed with them. Cheers! -Tim May -- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: by arrangement Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.