Re: Stu Baker on CALEA and the Net
I haven't read the CALEA text in a long time, but I think the answer may be yes and no. Stu is a very smart guy, one of the experts on this section of the law, but he could conceivably be overstating the case for his own purposes. -Declan At 05:32 PM 10/18/01 -0400, mikecabot@fastcircle.com wrote:
So is this guy (Stu Baker) just blowing smoke?
At 05:37 PM 10/18/2001 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
I haven't read the CALEA text in a long time, but I think the answer may be yes and no. Stu is a very smart guy, one of the experts on this section of the law, but he could conceivably be overstating the case for his own purposes.
-Declan
At 05:32 PM 10/18/01 -0400, mikecabot@fastcircle.com wrote:
So is this guy (Stu Baker) just blowing smoke?
I didn't see anywhere where Stu Baker said that he thought this was constitutional and/or within the original text of CALEA - the quoted bits I saw had him saying that the FBI is drafting regulations which proceed on the assumption that they can consider ISP's within CALEA's regulatory reach. He talked about the FBI's position, not his position. I don't think he's likely to take a hard-and-fast stance one way or the other on this; he's way too smart to get hung out to dry with a totally ridiculous position on a black-or-white legal or factual (or political) question. I don't agree with his balancing of security vs. privacy when answering policy questions, but he's also very good at what he does and represents his clients well; a former employer of mine got some help from him which was a godsend at the time, despite what I suspect was his personal opposition (or at least ambivalence) towards our mission. He's a gun-for-hire, not a doctrinaire blinders-on true believer for either the surveillance enthusiasts or privacy freaks. If he's talking about the FBI's reading of CALEA so that it reaches ISP's, that may be a good early warning that we're likely to see lots of the Beltway crew agreeing - the question is not whether some random cypherpunk thinks that's a fair reading of CALEA, the question is whether or not a federal judge thinks that's a fair reading, and things like this are valuable clues if you're interested in that narrow question. CALEA implementation has been slow - if the FBI is drafting regs now, they're going to have to go through the administrative rulemaking process (which I expect they can abbreviate in an "emergency"), publish final regs, and give ISP's at least a short time to comply - so we're still talking about months or years, not hours or days, so it's way too early for tech people to expect to hear about this via work. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids
He's a gun-for-hire, not a doctrinaire blinders-on true believer for either the surveillance enthusiasts or privacy freaks.
Oh, come off it. Stu is a well known NSA zealot. The only reason there's a bridge between Kapor and Baker is due to the cavernous ravine that lays between them. Kapor is now apparently half-way across, following Stu's silently bekoning finger, fearfully running from the sounds of angels wings; fooled into believing that they lie behind and not ahead of him. -- Julian Assange |If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and proff@iq.org |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
At 10:12 AM 10/19/2001 +1000, Julian Assange wrote:
He's a gun-for-hire, not a doctrinaire blinders-on true believer for either the surveillance enthusiasts or privacy freaks.
Oh, come off it.
Stu is a well known NSA zealot.
Have you actually spoken with him, or are you just working from press reports? Lots of things are "well known" and wrong, too.
The only reason there's a bridge between Kapor and Baker is due to the cavernous ravine that lays between them. Kapor is now apparently half-way across, following Stu's silently bekoning finger, fearfully running from the sounds of angels wings; fooled into believing that they lie behind and not ahead of him.
I don't know what Kapor has been smoking, but getting focused on Stewart Baker as the enemy is a distraction. He's articulate, and sympathetic to law enforcement/intelligence arguments in favor of surveillance and against privacy, but I'd sure rather hear him make those arguments in public than have him make them in private where the rest of us can't respond or prepare for what's coming. Maybe Kapor just now noticed that lives really are at stake - crypto and security aren't just about spying on porn downloads and credit cards. His reaction is typical of leftist privacy activists the first time they need to really grapple with violence and its implications - they want to get as far from it as possible, and defer to the right-wing "experts" they previously opposed. If the FBI really is preparing for a domestic surveillance initiative, hearing about that months in advance is a lot more helpful than yet another incompatible peer-to-peer content distribution system. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "We have found and closed the thing you watch us with." -- New Delhi street kids
On Thu, Oct 18, 2001 at 05:43:22PM -0700, Greg Broiles wrote:
If the FBI really is preparing for a domestic surveillance initiative, hearing about that months in advance is a lot more helpful than yet another incompatible peer-to-peer content distribution system.
Greg makes an excellent point. Think of it as an early warning. -Declan
Stu is a well known NSA zealot.
Have you actually spoken with him, or are you just working from press reports?
Lots of things are "well known" and wrong, too.
It's wise understand someone's agenda based on their past actions and attempts at influence and not the affability of their face. -- Julian Assange |If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people |together to collect wood or assign them tasks and proff@iq.org |work, but rather teach them to long for the endless proff@gnu.ai.mit.edu |immensity of the sea. -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
Julian Assange affianted:
It's wise understand someone's agenda based on their past actions and attempts at influence and not the affability of their face.
When I first got within 20 trace aromas of the lushness of Baker's double cultivated what-grows-wild-elsewhere above his peepers, my bubonic dingleberry squatters jumped cess to copulate in his. You think darkholed bugs, you think impenetrable hedgerows to camouflage the skidmarks.
participants (4)
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John Young -
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