Re: Pricing Mojo, Integrating PGP, TAZ, and D.C. Cypherpunks
Greg Broiles writes:
And that problem seems to be at the center of Nomen Nescio's sotto voce suggestion that some unnamed cypherpunks work up a currency which can be used to "pay" people for providing information which is of value -
It's not a matter of unnamed cypherpunks doing a favor, but rather a proposal offered to see if there is support. If a few people spoke up with agreement that such an effort were worth doing, the next step would be to put together a project, perhaps on sourceforge, and get some code into play. But if you run the flag up and no one salutes, then you should wait for a better idea.
I get the impression that s/he is imagining some magic fairy would mint up piles of the currency, and assign it equally to every subscriber, who would then be empowered to pay it to the content providers they liked best.
That's very warm and fuzzy and hippy-like, but if these tokens are handed out for free, then what, exactly, is their value?
This is the problem of initial distribution. Ideally there would be some way to give every person a fixed initial allocation, but in practice this will allow people to create new identities ("nyms") and get more than their share. It seemed that part of MojoNation's reason for backing away from mojo-as-money was the problem of fairly giving an initial allocation. Here's an idea which has been proposed before: use hashcash to purchase e-coins. Hashcash is a hash collision generated by a certain number of standard CPU hours of work. To enter into the ecash economy you could generate hashcash and send it to the server, getting ecash in exchange. Ecash is more suitable than hashcash as a form of currency as it can be transferred and exchanged at the bank with little effort or expense. But the problem is acquiring the initial ecash without the overwhelming inflation that Greg Broiles implicitly warns against. By basing ecash on hashcash which involves a significant expense to generate, you avoid inflation. In this system, the ecash "bank" would not be a bank at all. It would have two functions: give out some ecash given hashcash; and give out some (fresh) ecash given other ecash. The latter would use the double spending database and all that. If you received some ecash as payment you would immediately exchange it at the bank which will simultaneously verify that the cash is good and give you fresh coins for later spending. The ecash server is simply an exchanger. These are serious proposals. With Ben Laurie's lucre library and a berkeley db for the double spending database, a basic server could be put together in a few hours' work. Adam Back's hashcash software can be used as a client to generate the initial requests. The basic pieces are all here, no magic fairies required. The main question is again whether there exists an initial market which could be enticed into trying out this package on an experimental basis.
On Sat, 24 Nov 2001, Anonymous wrote:
It seemed that part of MojoNation's reason for backing away from mojo-as-money was the problem of fairly giving an initial allocation.
Do you know this because you've communicated with the Mojo team, are they on record about it, is this speculation, your inference from events, or something else? Please don't take that the wrong way - I don't doubt your integrity. It's an interesting suggestion and I'm just wondering where it came from.
The main question is again whether there exists an initial market which could be enticed into trying out this package on an experimental basis.
Perhaps one initial market might be one of the web sites which offer people a chance to connect with "experts" in various fields. One such web site solicited me based in part on postings to sci.crypt (guess that was good for something, after all). I tried it out, but found the interface too cumbersome and had qualms about being billed as an "expert" (it wasn't clear to me what guarantees were being made, and I didn't have time to do a proper job anyway). I regret I've forgotten the name. Anyone know if these sites are still working? -David
At 04:38 AM 11/24/2001 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
The main question is again whether there exists an initial market which could be enticed into trying out this package on an experimental basis.
What we're missing here is a party who's got a strong reputation and a deep balance sheet who's willing to offer to exchange, on a stable long-term basis, the hypothetical e-cash for something of value - dollars, gold, disk space, professional advice, whatever. In a mature market, that role isn't necessarily played by one big participant, but by many small ones - e.g., the US government won't give me gold for my dollars, but lots of coin stores will, and besides, I've had pretty good luck exchanging my dollars for food, housing, computers, etc, in pretty stable fashion. Until participants think that their time and investment made available to this system are reasonably likely to be available to them as outputs of one form or another, it'll be just another amusing hobby, like the existing P2P distribution systems (Gnutella, Napster, Morpheus/KaZaa, Mojo Nation, Freenet, etc). I'd be willing to make resources I've got on hand available in exchange for less-well-known currencies, assuming I can have some confidence that the lesser-known currency will itself be exchangable for something that I want. (I experimented with auctioning some items for grams of gold on <http://www.goldbarter.com> but didn't get any bids, and subsequently sold them for appreciably more in US dollars elsewhere, though some of that's probably due to GoldBarter's low profile versus Amazon and Ebay.) -- Greg Broiles -- gbroiles@parrhesia.com -- PGP 0x26E4488c or 0x94245961 4000 dead in NYC? National tragedy. 1000 detained incommunicado without trial, expanded surveillance? National disgrace.
participants (3)
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Anonymous
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dmolnar
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Greg Broiles