ANON: Steshenko, nntp
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The discussion on Mr. Steshenko's termination of employment has taken off in misc.jobs.misc and news.admin.policy. Some people have e-mailed me saying that what happened to Mr. Steshenko isn't uncommon at all. This fact bothered me all weekend long, that somebody can get fired for views expressed in a private e-list, which probably extrapolates to USENET posting as well. Apparently, Mr. Steshenko forgot to include the "disclaimer: my opinions" with his email. Is this all that is required? If he merely would have added the disclaimer, would his former employer be facing possible legal action? Would he still be employed? Is there some "minimal" text that must be included? I mean, I've seen disclaimers that are nearly a paragraph long to ones that try to be cute (#include <std.disclaimer> and so forth). I'm not saying his employer is in the wrong (I haven't really thought about this issue too much) since they are a private company and can censor and control use of their machines and all that stuff; it just goes to show sometimes you have to be really careful what you say and to whom. (If you missed the post to alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk and various other groups and don't get usenet let me know and I'll post it to the list if there is enough interest. I'm not sure if email copies I sent out made it since some bounces occured. Plus the good old "cannot deliver for 3 days; message queued" sort of error.) It bugged me because I really beleive that it is impossible to carry on a rational discussion if one side is afraid to voice an opinion. I'm not advocating libel or misuse (personal attacks, threats of violence, etc.) but every once in a while a really hot topic comes up which stirs the emotions. So, we can all forge mail with smtp, use the cypherpunk remailers, use "anonymous" servers like penet and charcoal, email-to-usenet gateways, etc. I've never seen instructions on how to forge a usenet post, so here goes: 1) Telnet to an NNTP server (see Yanoff's internet services list) 2) Type 'post'. After a bit, you'll get an OK message. 3) Type in what you want to appear. Have in mind before you start what fields you want in the header, or check other posts to see what they have. 4) End with a period on a line all by itself. After a bit, you'll get a "Post OK" message. 5) Type 'quit' For example, I was experimenting and telnetted to news.fu-berlin.de 119: ====================================================================== menudo> telnet news.fu-berlin.de 119 Trying 130.133.4.250... Connected to gibb.math.fu-berlin.de. Escape character is '^]'. 200 gibb NNTP server version 1.5.11 (10 February 1991) ready at Thu Jul 8 16:19:05 1993 (posting ok). post 340 Ok Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.d Path: one!two!three From: mr.smiley@other plane Subject: A test II Content-Type: text Sender: the MailMan Nntp-Posting-Host: castle Organization: other plane hackers Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1993 07:45:00 GMT Lines: 1 This is another test.
nobody@shell.portal.com writes:
This fact bothered me all weekend long, that somebody can get fired for views expressed in a private e-list, which probably extrapolates to USENET posting as well. Apparently, Mr. Steshenko
If I spend an hour a day using the phone at work for non-work purposes, and I get fired, nobody's going to care. If I spend an hour a day using the computing resources at work for non-work purposes, and I get fired, people go nonlinear. -eric
On Thu, 8 Jul 1993 nobody@shell.portal.com wrote:
(If you missed the post to alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk and various other groups and don't get usenet let me know and I'll post it to the list if there is enough interest. I'm not sure if email copies I sent out made it since some bounces occured. Plus the good old "cannot deliver for 3 days; message queued" sort of error.)
I'd like to see this... A couple of points... It looks like you were trying to stress test someones software.. I saw a --- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE --- at the start of your message, but no matching signature block... And it is kind of annoying to the rest of the group to request "let me know and I'll..." and then use an anonymous remailer to prevent replies... Oh well... -- Nick MacDonald | NMD on IRC i6t4@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca | PGP 2.1 Public key available via finger i6t4@unb.ca | (506) 457-1931 ^{1024/746EBB 1993/02/23}
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nobody@shell.portal.com writes:
This fact bothered me all weekend long, that somebody can get fired for views expressed in a private e-list, which probably extrapolates to USENET posting as well. Apparently, Mr. Steshenko
If I spend an hour a day using the phone at work for non-work purposes, and I get fired, nobody's going to care.
If I spend an hour a day using the computing resources at work for non-work purposes, and I get fired, people go nonlinear.
Good point. Err, I'm at work, and my lunch hour's up, so ... ;) - -- Ed Carp erc@wetware.com 510/659-9560 For anonymous mailers --> anonymus+5300@charcoal.com "Disagreements are not meant to be challenges. They are just a different reality." -- Risa D'Angeles -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.3 iQCVAgUBLDyBHxFgrV+S2pJNAQHaEgP/alRvqS8clLzQIrnBjx/Iy3xuLgIJbxmF uSjgDP/J+BfDKuLfEFpmh+b5GNiAJGMjwrVOCRtpjQUZgcUR+BpU3btx+c40p60u DBD+J9CopBR690oR6HXLcDReqSRg/QIlLTgZfDnPvp8cKm03wS0rHAUkyiH7wqFN cq7htdKAycA= =Eb7Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I'd like to see this... It's attached to this message.
A couple of points... It looks like you were trying to stress test someones software.. I saw a --- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE --- at the start of your message, but no matching signature block... And it is kind of annoying to the rest of the group to request "let me know and I'll..." and then use an anonymous remailer to prevent replies... Oh well...
Sorry, but I had a period on a line all by itself. This caused sendmail to truncate the rest of the message and my signature. The post sent through the phantom remailer should clear this up. Here is the post: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: soc.rights.human,soc.human-rights,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet From: viznyuk@ohstpy.bitnet (Serge Viznyuk) Subject: Politics, human rights, and Microsoft Corp. Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site Date: Thu, 1 Jul 1993 02:17:26 GMT X-Posted-From: avalon.mps.ohio-state.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu This letter has been sent to a number of UseNet newsgroups, e-mail lists, newspapers and information agencies. Carbon copy to administration of Microsoft Corp. It is a deplorable fact that in supposedly democratic country USA considers itself there could be a cases when someone not in government/public office is persecuted and loses his/her job for expressing his/her political views. It is even more deplorable given that it happened to a person who has undergone persecution and imprisonment for political motives in former USSR. Now one has to admit that similar to that of former USSR atmosphere of fear and oppression routinely exists in and is being maintained by administration officials of some US companies, in particular of Microsoft Corporation. Here is the case of Mr.Steshenko, Senior Software Engineer who has been fired by administration of Microsoft Corp. for participation in discussions on RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU and UKRAINE@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU e-mail lists. Those are moderated e-mail lists devoted to discussions on various political, social, economic, and cultural topics concerning related countries. As everybody knows, the disputes and even flames are necessary components of discussions on these and similar e-mail lists, and UseNet newsgroups. There are and will always be persons whose views and opinions do not coincide, or are opposite to each other. The tolerance to and respect for the opinion of your opponent are the prerequisites any society must satisfy to be considered civilized and democratic. However these basics seem to be unknown to administration of Microsoft Corp. whose reaction to complains filed by some paranoiac and hysteric individuals on behalf of Mr.Steshenko was unexpected and sweeping: ---
From: gregory steshenko <72410.626@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Today Microsoft Corp. dismissed me on the base of complaints of certain Ukrainian users about my posting on this network. I was told ( and even given writing ), that since my posting were considered as offensive by these users and since they complained to Microsoft about it, continuation of my work for that company may hurt Microsoft business.
Regards, Gregory Steshenko.
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From: Gregory Steshenko <72410.626@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Dismissal note from administration of Microsoft Corp.
"On June 21st and June 24th we received several complaints from UseNet subscribers regarding your comments to various Net news groups. The subscribers found your comments offensive and degrading to various ethnic and cultural groups and have complained to the Postmaster. In Employee Handbook, it clearly states that electronic bulletin boards should not be used to broadcast offensive material and should bear a disclaimer which indicates that the views of author do not represent Microsoft views. None of your messages carried this disclaimer and your comments expressed on the bulletin board were offensive. Your comments disparaging ethnic groups demonstrate your lack of discretion, judgement and professionalism. Therefore, your employment has been terminated effective June 29, 1993. "
Signed: Glenn Noyama.
Mr.Steshenko has not been given neither any options, nor prior warnings. This action of Microsoft constitutes the case of persecution for political motives typical for a totalitarian society, where anonymous reports and notes from informers serve as a basis for oppressive actions. Hopefully this letter might help urge Microsoft officials to reconsider their practices. All concerned persons are welcome to send a protest letters (some follow below) to: Mr. Bill Gates Microsoft Corp. One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 ( billg@microsoft.com, postmaster@microsoft.com ). ---
From: ST403231@BROWNVM.BITNET Subject: My extreme disappointment
Dear Mr Gates,
I am a subscriber to the newsgroup _Russia and her neighbors_, housed at arizvm1. I was extremely disappointed to learn over that newsgroup yesterday that one of Microsoft's employees, Gregory Steshenko, was dismissed because of complaints to Microsoft's management that some of Mr Steshenko's posting in that newsgroup had been construed as insulting to Ukrainians.
I am a graduate student in Slavic Languages. In the course of my training, I have spent a good deal of time in the former Soviet Union and in other formerly Communist countries of Eastern Europe. One of the things about those societies that most disturbed me was the role political denunciation could play in ruining someone's career. I have had friends who lost their jobs and the ability to work in the profession for which they had been trained because of a carefully made, politically motivated denunciation. I always took comfort in the knowledge that in our country it was not so easy to eliminate someone with whom you disagree. Or so I thought.
It disturbs me a great deal that this dismissal was carried out without making other options available to Mr Steshenko (such as instructions to post to the Eastern European-related newsgroups from another account, for example). And it disturbs me most of all that he was dismissed on the basis of people who complained about him because they were unable to best him by using their own intellect. We call this bullying in English. And I am extremely upset that as solid and successful an organization as Microsoft caved in to bullies on this occasion.
I have been an enthusiastic user of Microsoft Word for the Macintosh for as long as I have been in graduate school and have had access to computers. Over the past seven years, I have done my best to convince my friends and family, as they have become computer-literate, to use Word for their writing. I am in the process of writing my dissertation in Word. But just as I do not buy Chinese-made goods, because of my objection to the Chinese government's exploitation of prison labor, so I will be forced to examine whether I can in good conscience buy and use the goods of an organization that is willing to yield so quickly and completely to the demands of bullies who seek to censor speech that they are not clever enough to combat by using free speech on their own.
Sincerely,
Frank McLellan (st403231@brownvm.brown.edu)
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From: Jan Labanowski <jkl@OSC.EDU>
After reading a note from Gregory Steshenko that he will have to leave Microsoft Inc., as a result of denunciations from Russia & her neighbors list readers, I am really stunned. People who made this happen were well trained in the methods used in the Soviet Union. Congratulations to our Ukrainian friends! You have great future in the US !!! Now go after your neighbors, coworkers, etc. Beware only that while you can destroy people's lives this way, it will not bring you any personal gains. They hate informers here, and some day the favor will be returned.
The Microsoft Inc. had to do what they had to do. Companies in this litigation driven society cannot risk defamation suits and have to be most careful not to endanger public relations.
However, the fact that people resort to denunciations rather than discussion means only they do not need discussion. We all know that the most secure way to silence your opponent is to decapitate him/her. Some of us, however, do not think that this is an ethical solution. And whatever reasons are given (the "good name", "truth", "honor", "national pride"), if you want to hit somebody, it is always easy to find a reason. And the "national pride", "the absolute truth", "honor" were used by several charismatic leaders now and in the past to justify doing things which we still wonder how they could have happened.
So congratulations again... As a result, this list may become a Politically Correct Forum for exchanging polite hiperbolas which do not hurt anybody's feelings, as they are contents free. BRAVO...
Jan Labanowski Myself (but you can send your denunciations to my institution, if you so desire --- at some point in the game it becomes a second nature...).
---
From: CATHYF@EARLHAM.BITNET
Has anybody who understands the disputed language written to Microsoft about all this? They are concerned about their image, but that image might be damaged more by responding in this way to that sort of pressure. Peace, Cathy Flick cathyf@yang.earlham.edu
This letter has been sent/posted to: RUSSIA@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU and UKRAINE@ARIZVM1.CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU e-mail lists. soc.rights.human,soc.human-rights,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk, soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet, relcom.comp.os.windows.prog,relcom.comp.os.windows,relcom.msdos, relcom.politics,relcom.talk,relcom.fido.su.general,alt.politics, alt.politics.misc,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform, alt.politics.usa.misc,news.admin,news.admin.misc,news.admin.policy, news.misc,news.sysadmin,comp.os.msdos.misc,comp.os.msdos.programmer, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware,misc.jobs.misc.comp.os.ms-windows, comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.misc. Radio Liberty postmaster@RFERL.ORG Moscow office of US National Republican Radio postmaster@nrrusa.msk.su Voice of America Radio postmaster@voa.msk.su All-Russia TV and Radio Broadcasting Corporation postmaster@vgtrk.msk.su InterFax News Agency postmaster@interfax.msk.su Postfaktum News Agency postmaster@postf.msk.su Reuter News Agency postmaster@reuter.msk.su RUFA News Agency postmaster@rufa.msk.su TASS News Agency postmaster@tass.msk.su UPI News Agency postmaster@UPupi.msk.su Baltic News Agency postmaster@bns.msk.su Information Agency Ala-Press postmaster@alapress.msk.su Moscow office of "Dallas Morning News" postmaster@dmn.msk.su Moscow office of "Financial Times" postmaster@fntms.msk.su Newspaper "Komsomolskaya Pravda" postmaster@kompr.msk.su Moscow office of newspaper "Koelner Stadt Anzeiger" postmaster@ksta.msk.su Moscow office of newspaper "Los Angeles Times" postmaster@latimes.msk.su Newspaper "Moscow News" postmaster@moscow-news.msk.su Newspaper "Nesavisimaya Gaseta" postmaster@nega.msk.su Moscow office of newspaper "Philadelphia Inquirer" postmaster@phinq.msk.su Newspaper "Poisk" postmaster@poisk.msk.su Newspaper "Business World" postmaster@busworld.msk.su Moscow office of "Christian Science Monitor TV" postmaster@csmtv.msk.su Agency of Economic News postmaster@css.ena.msk.su --- S.Viznyuk
On Thu, 8 Jul 1993, Nickey MacDonald wrote:
A couple of points... It looks like you were trying to stress test someones software.. I saw a --- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE --- at the start of your message, but no matching signature block... And it is kind of annoying to the rest of the group to request "let me know and I'll..." and then use an anonymous remailer to prevent replies... Oh well...
Oh dear... I fear that someone somewhere has gotten into a loop... This is about my 10th copy of the above message... I hope I'm the only one getting all of them!! -- Nick MacDonald | NMD on IRC i6t4@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca | PGP 2.1 Public key available via finger i6t4@unb.ca | (506) 457-1931 ^{1024/746EBB 1993/02/23}
participants (5)
-
elee9sf＠Menudo.UH.EDU -
jet＠nas.nasa.gov -
khijol!erc＠apple.com -
Nickey MacDonald -
nobody＠shell.portal.com