------ Forwarded Message From: Marc <marcaniballi@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:27:05 -0500 To: <dave@farber.net> Subject: RE: [IP] The Shadow Internet Dear Dave; I find the entire piece to be rather amusing and I wonder if the source isn't a card carrying neo-conservative. The concept of these "dark nets" terrorizing anyone is ridiculous. Terrorism is the act of instilling extreme and usually generalized fear, and consequent action (or inaction) in an enemy/oppressor through excessive and/or seemingly random acts of violence usually involving significant loss of "innocent" life. What is the motivation of these "pirates?" It certainly isn't "booty;" They won't be getting rich by ripping and broadcasting media! It seems to me (having absolutely no direct personal experience of this corner of the net), that these folks do it to simply prove it can be done, and to prove they can do it better and faster. It strikes me that this makes it very difficult to eliminate this type of network. The usual methodology for crime syndicate elimination involves finding the money flow and stopping it and following it upstream - here however, there is no money flow! And since the community is very closed, highly distributed and has the best tech a "crime" syndicate could ask for, it becomes somewhat more problematic, especially introducing jurisdiction issues that can in some cases render the activity innocuous to local law! Cutting off the head of these broadcast networks is impossible - they are hydralike, and when you take out one head, the others instantly become immune to the previous style of attack. I have long subscribed to the concept that "soft piracy" shows the world an inefficiency that is impeding progress/evolution. In the 80s it was software piracy; the message? Too expensive and not useful enough! In western society this problem is being addressed fairly well, and piracy of software such as Windows (ignoring counterfeiters who resell, etc.) is more of a recreational sport than a serious impact on Microsoft. In the emerging economies piracy is still rampant, and will be until the average person can easily afford/justify the expense. Now, in the media world with CDs and DVDs, we have a similar situation. A VHS tape of a new release movie was $20 and a vinyl LP was $12 20 years ago. The technology has improved (one can hope!!) and volume is high enough to allow for scale economy to kick in - why are DVDs still $30+ and CDs $20+ ?!! Same game, different industry - possibly a more insidious game this time, because with software one can plainly see increasing capability with decreasing/static prices as a general trend - not so with media. (Recent developments such as iTunes aside). In my opinion, modern soft piracy is a necessary component to technological, commercial and social evolution - so long as it is the type of piracy that is founded on fun, not profit. Regards, Marc Aniballi -----Original Message----- From: owner-ip@v2.listbox.com [mailto:owner-ip@v2.listbox.com] On Behalf Of David Farber Sent: December 30, 2004 1:14 PM To: Ip Subject: [IP] more on The Shadow Internet I strongly agree but don't think it is just poor use of words, It has a very specific use and aim which is NOT nice. Dave ------ Forwarded Message From: Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:33:25 -0500 To: David Farber <dave@farber.net> Cc: Dewayne Hendricks <dewayne@warpspeed.com> Subject: Re: [IP] The Shadow Internet On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 10:41:33AM -0500, David Farber quoted:

Inside the pirate networks that are terrorizing the entertainment business.

Please. I would like to suggest that anyone who uses the words stemming from "terror" in any context which does _not_ involve death, injury, torture, rape, etc. be repeatedly pummeled upside the head with a copy of the closest available unabridged dictionary -- preferably wielded by someone who has been an actual victim of actual terror and thus has a clue what it means. ---Rsk ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as marcaniballi@hotmail.com To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen@leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]