A fellow cypherpunk lister says about the number of employees at NSA:
40,000? Is this for real? Does anyone know how this would compare to FBI or CIA? Also, does anyone have a clue on the black budget? The author seems to hint here that while it is not "readily discernible" it might be inferrable.
The number of employees at the FBI is public info. I don't have it at hand. CIA employment used to be secret, and may still be. Of course you can buy a picture from SPOT and count the cars for an estimate. At both agencies, there are a significant number of contract employees, who are not on the employment rolls, but are efectively the same as government employees. They aren't counted in public info. I can't guess at the number of NSA folks. But I can relate an story.... I gave a paper at this year's National Computer Security Conference, in Baltimore. Like all conferences, it had a registration area, vendor's booths, etc. Following form, it had nice folks behind counters with signs over the top, with the usual: Prepaid A-F | Prepaid G-M | .... | Walkup | Press | ... sections. What surprized me was the row of counters labeled: NSA A-E | NSA F-H | ..... NSA W-Z There were as many NSA booths as all the rest combined. (ok, +- 10%) Another aside. The NCSC is essentially a front for the NSA. NCSC exists but has no more than two employees, one is the secretary to an NSA official. Pat Pat Farrell, Grad Student pfarrell@cs.gmu.edu Department of Computer Science, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA PGP key available via finger or request #include standard.disclaimer
Another aside. The NCSC is essentially a front for the NSA. NCSC exists but has no more than two employees, one is the secretary to an NSA official.
Extremely interesting. What does NCSC stand for? I am doubtful of the 40,000 figure even with contract employees. That's a small army. What the hell could keep that many people busy? (shudder) Do you know much about MITRE? It has a high net profile and I was wondering if it is a cover for something else too.
someone with a long net address, included in the "To:" field, writes: (quoting someone else)
Another aside. The NCSC is essentially a front for the NSA. NCSC exists but has no more than two employees, one is the secretary to an NSA official.
Extremely interesting. What does NCSC stand for?
National Computer Security Center. Send a letter requesting to be added to the distribution list of the "Orange Book"-related materials (frequent updates to a set of guidelines on computer security protocols, the most famous being one with an orange cover, hence the name), and you will start receiving a lot of stuff from them. The address: The INFOSEC Awareness Office can be reached at: Department of Defense National Security Agency ATTN: S332 9800 Savage Road Ft. George Meade, MD 20755-6000 or phone 301-766-8729 (these are the numbers I used a couple of years ago...your mileage may vary.)
I am doubtful of the 40,000 figure even with contract employees. That's a small army. What the hell could keep that many people busy? (shudder)
NSA occupies two very large office buildings, including the longest corridor in the world (a mile, if I recall correctly, but my copy of "The Puzzle Palace" is not handy). I went and took a look, and can confirm the parking lot is _huge_. The 40,000 figure may or may not be accurate, as the NSA won't say. Some say the employment is closer to 100,000. Certainly it is much higher than that of the CIA. Bear in mind that they are the nation's primary SIGINT facility, operating the various listening posts in conjunction with military personnel (via Army Security Agency, Naval Security Group, Air Forc, etc.). As always, read James Bamford's "The Puzzle Palace," which gets referred to a lot on this list.
Do you know much about MITRE? It has a high net profile and I was wondering if it is a cover for something else too.
MITRE, derived from "MIT REsearch," is one of several defense-oriented think tanks, the others being RAND Corporation ("R & D," not Ayn Rand!), Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA), etc. The Communications Research Division of IDA, located at Princeton, was formed in 1956 to help the NSA. Lots of famous mathematicians, including Barkley Rosser, Andrew Gleason, and others. This shadowy world of defense think tanks is a subject unto itself. -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: waiting for the dust to settle.
participants (3)
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ld231782＠longs.lance.colostate.edu -
pfarrell＠cs.gmu.edu -
tcmay＠netcom.com