-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 1:06 PM -0400 on 10/17/00, George@orwellian.org forwards from Fox News:

# The U.S. National Security Agency wants to do battle in cyberspace.

Marvellous. But they'll have to get in line behind every corporate IT department, as people like Whitfield Diffie have already observed. "Infowar" will be -- is being -- fought by business, because government in this sphere is too damned slow -- too expensive -- to be of much use there. Put another way, it won't be the NSA which does our computer security, and, if any third party does it at all, it'll be firms like Counterpane and L0pht/@Stake, operating like those fictional private protection "rackets" in Vernor Vinge's anarcho-capitalist chestnut novella _The Ungoverned_. All of which proves, once again, that financial, not political, cryptography is the only crypto that really matters. Speaking of finance, :-), I'm reading a book about the Medici at the moment, and that reminds me of something almost pertinant, here: the Pope had troops once, too. In fact, in a manner of speaking, he still does, in the form of the Swiss Guards. Note, of course othogonally, that Switzerland itself hasn't gone to war much either, lately, any more than the Vatican has. Even the Knights Hospitaler "control" a few hundred square yards of floorspace, speaking of the Vatican. Anyway, just like the Pope's "troops" can only manage to guard the Vatican, so too will government computer security apparatchiks only be able to guard a given government's own systems, and not much of those of it's "faithful". It would cost too much in real economic terms to do, and, like "buying" force from nation-states is cheaper than it is from one's religious denomination, buying computer security is cheaper in the private market than it ever will be obtainable from any nation-state. Dan Geer's observation of a firm's borders as the symmetric/asymmetric key boundary, and of course, Coase's theorem of transaction cost and firm size are probably two really good theoretical reasons for this. Force itself may be cheaper from private-non-monopolistic markets someday as well, but that's beside my point, here, except that they'll both be results of Moore's law and its effect not only on the information costs of price discovery, but on the mechanical, risk adjusted costs of transactions themselves, through internet bearer transactions. Just like the Swiss Guards -- or, more properly, like Neal Stephenson's "FEDS" in _Snow Crash_ who, after all, were just another franchise -- the NSA will eventually only be able to "patrol" the cypherspace boundries of its own installations, and not much further. Of course, like the Medici popes, they might be able to thrash around in cypherspace a whole bunch before they stop actually trying to do so... Cheers, RAH -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQEVAwUBOeyaRsUCGwxmWcHhAQHfxAf/XAO3COMo2JyLwv3wy5Zus0WDa8oNkk0z lhijmsJkC82pPY220Ho8x5BRlyGvqiTiDbTx6s8Pa1d9G9F5l4eP8iFPzPlMXv0N VYGRxbuAx5lgy8KLe9mk7KY/wL427Q4E4L0yeviJGiD1h6CFUgwe947FIuJHZq68 ZJpxUdQgfkgrn8AZJd1QK//zbNf+fWR203I4oBlOtOJJf9DXXS2SMkdAvr/XcqJE HZYHASysuelusd4wv8PD5IfNSLhuAkzCLoRgD+4s2Kw6fF49Nr0ZQgFA2lnRLXMM txPVKuZPztF5nABP5YaBSZQjYeyAEndrXQLcvqhmZlPsJIEGAJUK4g== =9OiI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

Speaking of "The Ungoverned", I've been looking for it, can't find it in libraries, Amazon, or Bibliofind, so I'm thinking that it was in a collection? Does anyone know which? -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN (218) 741-3840 hseaver@arrowhead.lib.mn.us http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us

Speaking of "The Ungoverned", I've been looking for it, can't find it in libraries, Amazon, or Bibliofind, so I'm thinking that it was in a collection? Does anyone know which?

It's in "True Names... and Other Dangers". -- -- Marshall "The era of big government is over." Bill Clinton, State of the Union Address, January 23, 1996 Marshall Clow MusicMatch mailto:mclow@mailhost2.csusm.edu

Tim May wrote:

At 1:10 PM -0400 10/18/00, Harmon Seaver wrote:

...

Speaking of "The Ungoverned", I've been looking for it, can't find it in libraries, Amazon, or Bibliofind, so I'm thinking that it was in a collection? Does anyone know which?

It's in one of the two paperback collections of Vinge's short stories and novellas, either in "Threats and Other Promises" or "True Names and Other Dangers." Both are out of print. I have both, but not in locations known to me as I write, so I can't check which one has "The Ungoverned."

The best bet has always been for folks to snap up Vinge novels as they are found in second-hand book shops. I bought several copies of "The Peace War," "Marooned in Realtime," and, of course, "True Names," in just this way.

Something I'm going to have to start looking for, I guess. Just did a Bibliofind search for True Names, found only 3 copies -- two were $100 each (one like new, the other "signed by author" ) and the other was $60. I buy a lot of used books, and those are pretty amazing prices for fairly recent paperbacks, and especially a high volume sci-fi. Sigh! I read his "Deepness In the Sky" and liked it. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN (218) 741-3840 hseaver@arrowhead.lib.mn.us http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us

At 1:10 PM -0400 10/18/00, Harmon Seaver wrote:

...

Speaking of "The Ungoverned", I've been looking for it, can't find it in libraries, Amazon, or Bibliofind, so I'm thinking that it was in a collection? Does anyone know which?

It's in one of the two paperback collections of Vinge's short stories and novellas, either in "Threats and Other Promises" or "True Names and Other Dangers." Both are out of print. I have both, but not in locations known to me as I write, so I can't check which one has "The Ungoverned."

The best bet has always been for folks to snap up Vinge novels as they are found in second-hand book shops. I bought several copies of "The Peace War," "Marooned in Realtime," and, of course, "True Names," in just this way.

Last time I checked, "True Names" was going for over $100 on the auction sites (you can search through the biggest one at www.auctionwatch.com)--although one is at $23 right now, and another one at $57. I've seen them for over $100 at some of the used book dealers.

Vinge just won a second Hugo Best Novel for "A Deepness in the Sky," so maybe this means the long-delayed re-issue of "True Names" will finally happen. (Alas, That would be nice. As much as I like his writing, I cringe at spending more than cover price on a used book, when I know the author will never see a dime of it. -- A quote from Petro's Archives: ********************************************** Sometimes it is said that man can not be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural

At 12:14 AM -0700 10/20/00, petro wrote:

...

At 1:39 PM -0400 10/18/00, Tim May wrote:

There's also a very scarce compilation of "The Peace War" and "Marooned in Realtime" which is called "Across Realtime." It contains "The Ungoverned" in between the two novels. Good luck in finding it, though.

I believe the Sunnyvale Public Library has a copy. IIRC that's where I checked it out--but returned it when I noticed that it seemed to be just Peace War and Marooned together in one book.

Which is what I said, with the novella "The Ungoverned" in between. As for the Sunnyvale Library having it, isn't this a violation of the Children's Protection Act of 2000? I thought part of the FBI's Library Awareness Program was going around to public libraries to make sure those under 18 (under 21 in twelve states, under 24 in five states) are not being exposed to seditious and un-American influences. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.