On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 02:01:12PM -0500, Sunder wrote:

While I'm not comparing humans to ants, nor to slime mold cells -- don't even attempt to make that connection, the lesson here for you to learn is that individual action performed in the self interest of the individual, when integrated over a large population shows emergent behavior, and is beneficial to most members of the group.

You don't need socialism, communism, fascism or religion in order to help others out. The drives to survival and self preservation allow us humans to act together in common interests. As is does ants, most types of bees (termite bees for example aren't social.), etc.

The point about emergent behavior is excellently made. A corollary that occurs to me is that one of the prime motivators in the emergent quality of human society may well be the pursuit of non-zero sum games. This assumption is based on my reading of Robert Wright's _Non Zero_. I think Sunder hits this on the head as well when he goes off about how self interest does not necessarily harm others, that as humans we are not typically bound by win-lose scenarios. Rather some behavior may result in poor or no gains on a societal scale and others may result in increased benefits for all. In this light, seemingly altruistic behavior can be re-interpreted as banking favors against future need. One of Wright's better examples is the practice in certain tribal societies of giving away excess food. Usually the food wouldn't keep long, anyway, and by helping a neighbor out today help is usually secured against future need when a neighbor may be the one with the excess. Tom -- "I recommend..bread, meat, vegetables, and beer." -- Sophocles mailto:thomas@gideonfamily.org http://www.gideonfamily.org/tom/ jabber:Highlander@jabber.org