CDR: re:Tim May's anti-semitic rants
Tim's anti Jewish sentiments are obvious in his current posts and in the past. If he had any guts he would admit what he really feels instead of using sarcasm and obfuscation. Tim May writes
Nowhere in my article did I mention Jews or Judaism.
At 2:05 PM -0500 10/19/00, auto9950013@hushmail.com wrote:
Tim's anti Jewish sentiments are obvious in his current posts and in the past. If he had any guts he would admit what he really feels instead of using sarcasm and obfuscation.
This anonymous poster complains that I haven't admitted what I really feel. Oh, the irony. Also, I've expressed my views quite plainly in many thousands of articles. As for Jews, I have nothing for or against them, per se. Ditto for Muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Scientologists, Catholics, Lutheran, Jehovah's Witnesses, Wiccans, Baalists, or Baloneyians. As for Zionism, I despise it. A political system which says that people living in Schenectady or Dublin or Krakow should travel to Palestine and expel the owners of farms and shops because some desert prophet claimed to have heard a message from his desert god 3300 years ago that the land would be given to his followers...despicable. As for the modern state of Israel, it has some good and some bad. It has some forward-looking high tech companies. Unfortunately, many of them are essentially state-owned. It has some well-educated people. It also has some fascists. In the long run, I doubt Israel will survive in its present form. It's just packed-in too close to those with access to bombs, biological weapons, nerve gas, and so on. And some of those folks it expelled from farms and shops have long memories...and a martyr's sensibility. Some of those Palestinians will eventually decide to take out Tel Aviv with a suitcase nuke, or airborne Ebola, or any of the various Horsemen. Pouring out the vials, so to speak. And what will I think of millions of Zionists being incinerated or coughing out their last breaths? I'll think of it as the inevitable consequences of encouraging people in this modern age to migrate to someone else's land and forcibly expel them. I'll think of it as evolution in action. My biggest worry will be what will happen to my Intel stock if the Qiryat Gat wafer fab is destroyed. The former residents of the Palestinian village of Al Falujah, may return. So, Mr. Anonymous Hushmail, I've expressed my views a lot more publically than you have. Twit. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
-- At 02:05 PM 10/19/2000 -0500, auto9950013@hushmail.com wrote:
Tim's anti Jewish sentiments are obvious in his current posts and in the past. If he had any guts he would admit what he really feels instead of using sarcasm and obfuscation.
The suggestion that Tim does not say what he really feels is hilarious. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG F/C8lAR7aWuRz0VXp6ePyVrviYb9xPjNeleTwp5a 4H/8J+BbakMc+mUC0lwyODBCi/vG/WFSK7onLN8RE
While I'm not going to go out on a limb to defend any of Tim's statements, I will say that calling him an anti semite is bullshit. There is a mentality that equates any criticism of Israel or the Israelis with anti semiticism. This is an ugly vile and manipulative way of dealing with one's political enemies. If I criticize Britain or the British government have I criticized its people ? OF course not. Fucking A, what the hell is running loose in people's minds. Israel is no more immune from criticism than Iraq, India, or any of the other tin pot nations in the Third World, or in the First world for that matter. There is nothing sacred about Israel to a goy so we goys reserve the right to criticize it. If I criticize the Saudis am I anti Islamic ? Or anti Semitic, for that matter, considering that Arabs are at least just as much Semitic as Polish immigrants... Tim has a right to say whatsofucking ever he wishes to sya, and he exercises this right frequently. In doing so he alienates Blacks, Jews, Arabs, and little (or big for that matter) Chinese. Such is Tim's *right*. if a particular statement of his stings then its probably because it has some freeeking truth behind it...
"Remember, children of Israel, "Eretz Israel" is not the same thing as "lebensraum," and the suppression of the ragheads in Eretz Israel is merely pest eradication, not the "Final Solution." War is peace, freedom is slavery, and Zionists are libertarians."
To repeat again, there is nothing fucking anti Semitic about this statement, Eretz Israel is the same thing as lebensraum, and if you are incapable of seeing this then feel free to shove the previous statement up your ass. -- "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, madmullah wrote:
While I'm not going to go out on a limb to defend any of Tim's statements, I will say that calling him an anti semite is bullshit.
Calling him a bigot however isn't.
There is a mentality that equates any criticism of Israel or the Israelis with anti semiticism. This is an ugly vile and manipulative way of dealing with one's political enemies. If I criticize Britain or the British government have I criticized its people ? OF course not.
Yes you have, the 'government' are the poeple. This schizo view of government as if it was some stand alone entity that decends from the heavens to enslave mankind is what is bullshit. "Let's get rid of the government." "Ok, who do we shoot first?" This describes the fundamental flaw of anarchy. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> wrote:
Calling him a bigot however isn't.
...if a bigot is someone who disagrees with what you find 'correct.'
Yes you have, the 'government' are the poeple. This schizo view of government as if it was some stand alone entity that decends from the heavens to enslave mankind is what is bullshit.
Not really. Criticizing the government comes down to one of two things: criticizing a particular member of the government or criticizing the policies of the government or some government body. If I say "the FBI is a corrupt bunch of slimeball fucktowels," I haven't criticized the American public, I've criticized the policies of a body of the government which are not necessarily based on the whims of the people. It's nice to _say_ that the government is the people, but in a lot of cases, the government does take on the role of the enslaver---i.e. the wiretapping policies of the FBI, the overstepping of law enforcement, the Drug War, key escrow, etc. -- Riad Wahby rsw@mit.edu MIT VI-2/A 2002 5105
At 6:39 PM -0500 11/3/00, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Attachment converted: G4 Tower HD:Re- CDR- Re- Tim May's anti-sem (MiME/CSOm) (00006A43)
I urge you to set up your PGP signing so that the attached signed file is _in addition_ to a normal ASCII file. Regrettably, on the many occasions when PGP 5.0 bombs and is no longer accessible to me from Eudora, I can't open these PGP attachments. Besides, signatures on informal lists like this are highly overrated. --Tim May -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> wrote:
Calling him a bigot however isn't.
...if a bigot is someone who disagrees with what you find 'correct.'
Not at all. Tim has spoken on many occassions how he feels that any 'special' considerations with respect to handicapped is wrong and that his solution is to not hire them. He has also stated that he felt that the public expulsion of lesbians from a public event was justified. In general Tim's solution to anything that irritates Tim is to shoot it. (Ok, that's a slight exageration; but not by much) Check the archives, you can read it in Tim's own words. You don't, and shouldn't, take my word for it. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
At 6:53 PM -0600 11/3/00, Jim Choate wrote:
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Riad S. Wahby wrote:
Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> wrote:
Calling him a bigot however isn't.
...if a bigot is someone who disagrees with what you find 'correct.'
Not at all. Tim has spoken on many occassions how he feels that any 'special' considerations with respect to handicapped is wrong and that his solution is to not hire them.
True enough. In a free society, this is my choice. Any "special consideration" mandated by Men with Guns is, of course, wrong. Those pushing such laws have, of course, earned killing.
He has also stated that he felt that the public expulsion of lesbians from a public event was justified.
A "public event" at a _publically-owned_ venue, no. A "public event" at a _privately-owned_ venue, yes. See above. The confusion you show derives from your careless use of "public event." At all privately-owned venues, there is no meaning to the term "public event." Millions who have argued otherwise, and used guns to support their views, need to be liquidated. --TimMay -- ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, "Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000, Tim May wrote:
True enough. In a free society, this is my choice.
Any "special consideration" mandated by Men with Guns is, of course, wrong. Those pushing such laws have, of course, earned killing.
Unless of course it's Tim who's holding the gun and making the choice. Tim's theory is that he is the only one fit to make decisions about who else is fit. He's a hypocrit as a consequence, everytime he talks about 'freedom from coercion'. ____________________________________________________________________ He is able who thinks he is able. Buddha The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Choate wrote:
Yes you have, the 'government' are the poeple. This schizo view of government as if it was some stand alone entity that decends from the heavens to enslave mankind is what is bullshit.
And happens to describe the real situation for most people in the world, most of the time. Criticise the British government all you want in front of me. I'll happily agree that they are better than three-quarters of the governments in the world - for that matter better than the last 50 years of government in the UK - but that doesn't mean that they have got it anywhere near right or that I support most of what they do. I might *vote* for them but that might be mainly to keep the other lot out. I might even be a member of the same political party as the government - but that cold be for quite other reasons. But I don't personally identify with them in any way. Your criticism of them is unlikely to upset, worry, or offend me. (& even if it did that's no reason for you not to make it)
Jim Choate wrote:
Yes you have, the 'government' are the poeple. This schizo view of government as if it was some stand alone entity that decends from the heavens to enslave mankind is what is bullshit.
"Let's get rid of the government."
"Ok, who do we shoot first?"
This describes the fundamental flaw of anarchy.
I disagree. "the government" is a term for more than the people, even for more than the people making up "the government". lumb them all into a football stadium and you don't have a government - just a bunch of people. there's an organizational structure that makes up "the government", and in most western countries it's stronger than the people - you can basically exchange them all without too much of a change to "the government" (as proven after every election). but change the structure while retaining the people and you end up with something completely different (e.g. germany's transition from the weimar republic to the third reich). in that sense "let's get rid of the government" *can* be interpreted as "let's tear down these structures". it not always *is* meant that way, but it *can*. and of course the opinions about what to replace it with differ a lot. but most of those who are anti-government don't so much say "let's kill president X or minister Y" as rather "the voting system is crap" or "government is bought by the big corporations" or "there should be no authority at all" or something to that effect, which is definitely a *structural* as opposed to a *personal* complaint.
participants (8)
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auto9950013＠hushmail.com -
James A.. Donald -
Jim Choate -
Ken Brown -
madmullah -
Riad S. Wahby -
Tim May -
Tom Vogt