Markets (was Re: Hayek was right. Twice.)
From: "Sampo Syreeni" <decoy@iki.fi>
There's no such thing as "efficient level", except in the tautology "the market outcome is always efficient".
Only if you take as granted a market based on some fixed set of property rights and other rules of exchange. If you do this, there is no reason to discuss the issue further and your reply was, to put it bluntly, superfluous.
I can't see a market defined as anything else than "private property and voluntary exchange".
We both created stuff we didn't expect to be paid for - these emails.
True. But somehow I fail to see how one can scale this sort of reasoning to entail anything approaching one of the current TOP10 movies.
Irrelevant. Does Linux scale to your intended target any better? How about a voluntary army in WW2? People do even "grand" things without expecting to be paid (or even worse, expecting to die from it), because they want to. If you want them to produce more, feel free to pay them. Arguments "I don't like that they only produce this much, so YOU should pay them" are at least inane. Mark
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, Marcel Popescu wrote:
I can't see a market defined as anything else than "private property and voluntary exchange".
Then you really must be blind. Markets not based on private property or volition abound. The political process is one of them. Social control is another. Gift economies, like Open Source, are a third. One might claim most markets are based on something other than the above mentioned combination.
Irrelevant. Does Linux scale to your intended target any better?
It does indeed. But unlike movies, Linux is a modular project. The kernel would exist in the absence of the GNU toolset, and vice versa. X would exist in the absence of UNIX, too. Each of the common desktop applications could very well have been coded on top of something else than Linux. But try constructing an Independence Day without Will Smith. Or the special effects. Or the soundtrack. Or the distribution chain. Try guaranteeing that it arrives on schedule without making a loss. I think you will not be able to accomplish that with a volunteer effort. Try doing that tens of thousands of times a year (that's for all of what is currently covered by IP) and you're bound to fail. Unlike with Linux, the individual parts of most larger projects involving IP are of no use without the surrounding whole. Unlike Linux, many IP products aren't modular, reusable or decomposable, and so they can only exist if you can find a single source of financing for the whole project. In the case of modular projects, you can rely on overlapping interests to fill in the voids, but most projects aren't like that. Especially if all that the creator gets is the ever-diminishing value of a single copy. Why is it that there's no Buzz for Linux? No decent installer? (Not one of them survives my hardware...) No workable Unicode support? A stable 64-bit filesystem? Why is nobody willing to guarantee kernel stability, even when paid big bucks? 'Cause the project is a gift, and only caters to a single kind of need: something an individual developer/company really needs and can afford to develop for him/itself, then losing little by exposing the code to others. Usefulness thinly spread over a considerable user community is completely forgotten.
People do even "grand" things without expecting to be paid (or even worse, expecting to die from it), because they want to.
Well, what stupid people they are. I wouldn't go anywhere as far as gettimg myself killed for the common good. Even paying for software I can just copy is a stretch. What makes you think most people care enough to Do the Right Thing? What makes you think relying on Doing the Right Thing is a good idea? I mean, it's been tried before, and the consequences aren't worth a second look.
If you want them to produce more, feel free to pay them. Arguments "I don't like that they only produce this much, so YOU should pay them" are at least inane.
Indeed they are. So are ones assuming that anything not profitable to a single person couldn't be to a larger number of individuals. Like most things, private property rights and economic theory based solely on bilateral trade are a matter of continuous dispute. It's not that I don't consider them useful (I do; nowadays you could call me, too, a libertarian), but taking them as granted isn't the way to go, either. Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:decoy@iki.fi, tel:+358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
participants (2)
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Marcel Popescu -
Sampo Syreeni