n an October 18 statement signed by groups around the world, critics said logs based on such archived data had been used to track dissidents and persecute minorities. We urge you not to establish this requirement in a modern communications network,'' said a 27-group coalition including the American Civil Liberties Union, Privacy International and the Internet Society.

`Police agencies and powerful private interests acting outside of the democratic means of accountability have sought to use a closed process to establish rules that will have the effect of binding legislation,'' the groups added.

In its response to these concerns, the Justice Department said there was no such retention requirement at issue but a data ``preservation'' provision.

"Preservation is not a new idea; it has been the law in the United States for nearly five years,'' the statement said.

Preservation of logs is "the law"? That's news to me. I've never preserved a log over the 4 weeks or so that the default unix config. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS Systems Librarian Arrowhead Library System Virginia, MN (218) 741-3840 hseaver@arrowhead.lib.mn.us http://harmon.arrowhead.lib.mn.us

At 4:00 PM -0500 12/4/00, Harmon Seaver wrote:

Harmon Seaver wrote:

...

...

"Preservation is not a new idea; it has been the law in the United States for nearly five years,'' the statement said.

Preservation of logs is "the law"? That's news to me. I've never preserved a log over the 4 weeks or so that the default unix config.

Not only that, but we don't and have never kept any sort of router logs, which is really what they would be after, I'd think. And we are the ISP for all the libraries in the whole NE part of MN. Just think of all those perverts and narco-terrorists using the free internet access in our libraries to keep in touch with Osama anonymously. Shame on us, shame, shame!

I did some Google searches, on "preservation logs online" and found nothing. I tried some variations. I expect the nature of legal data bases is that Google will probably not turn up obscure legal rulings which failed to get media or activist attention. Maybe Findlaw will turn up something. I would be very interesting in seeing the full context of the U.S. official's basis for his comment that "preservation has been the law for nearly five years." From the time period, I am expecting CALEA is being implicated here. It would be an interesting First Amendment case if there were some putative requirement that all communications be logged (absent some specific court order to do so). The cynical point of view is that this is just one of the tens of thousands of regulations which our overbusy imperial capital generates every year. More things to turn us all into felons. I briefly had some hope when I saw a yellow Ryder truck heading north, towards Washington. Hot damn, I thought, we're gonna see another mcveighing! Alas, it was only some chads and dimples. --Tim May -- (This .sig file has not been significantly changed since 1992. As the election debacle unfolds, it is time to prepare a new one. Stay tuned.)