Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius...
From: Steve Thompson <steve49152@yahoo.ca> Sent: Dec 7, 2004 1:26 PM To: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius...
...
Tim May has probably gotten all strange in the last few years, living in his remote hilltop home, waiting to see the end that will not come since the y2k crisis turned out to be nothing more than a financial boondoggle for the companies that believed all the hype.
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction. ...
Steve
--John
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking
On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 09:17:30AM -0500, John Kelsey wrote: peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction. There was no doubt he was trolling. I never figured out the precise reason, though. Attempted suicide by cop? Free speech illustration? You tell me. Neither is sufficient interesting. -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Eugen Leitl wrote:
On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 09:17:30AM -0500, John Kelsey wrote:
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
There was no doubt he was trolling. I never figured out the precise reason, though. Attempted suicide by cop? Free speech illustration? You tell me. Neither is sufficient interesting.
the Zen Master's stick: irrationality is not to be overcome its value recognizes you as you become undone
At 9:17 AM -0500 12/8/04, John Kelsey wrote:
But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
Yup. Canonical Cypherpunk, and all that. Impossible to keep in a killfile, etc. Like it or not, we live in a Maysian Universe... Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 09:26, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
At 9:17 AM -0500 12/8/04, John Kelsey wrote:
But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
Yup.
Canonical Cypherpunk, and all that. Impossible to keep in a killfile, etc.
Like it or not, we live in a Maysian Universe...
All we need is a Bayesian Maysian filter to separate the wheat from the (racist | deranged | anarchist | readthearchives) chaff. On a related note, is it possible that Tim has syphillis and it went to his brain? His earlier work was certainly insightful, well thought-out, and useful. His later writings, generally useless and irritating though they were, still had occasional relevance. Poor Tim, sharing Nietzsche's fate.
At 10:38 AM -0500 12/8/04, Steve Furlong wrote:
anarchist
Bzzt wrong answer. Must filter that *in*, thankewverramuch... Cheers, RAH -- ----------------- R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 10:47, R.A. Hettinga wrote:
At 10:38 AM -0500 12/8/04, Steve Furlong wrote:
anarchist
Bzzt wrong answer.
Must filter that *in*, thankewverramuch...
I know what you mean, but (a) I didn't write what I meant, and (b) I don't think a true anarchy would be the proper environment for your anarcho-capitalism. My complaints about Tim's anarchistic writings were about his desire to watch DC detonate, or to watch a rampage against useless eaters of one type or another, or the like. However, unless there were a mass uprising against the current government, or the idea of any government, any limited demonstration would simply be an excuse for the ratchet to turn another few clicks. Viz the OKC bombing. As for anonymous bearer transactions in an anarchy, I'm going to have to bag on that for now. Not cowardice -- work to do. Later, if I remember, which I won't because I'm a burnout. Regards, SRF
At 08:25 AM 12/8/2004, Steve Furlong wrote:
I know what you mean, but (a) I didn't write what I meant, and (b) I don't think a true anarchy would be the proper environment for your anarcho-capitalism.
My complaints about Tim's anarchistic writings were about his desire to watch DC detonate, or to watch a rampage against useless eaters of one type or another, or the like.
If you think those are anarchist ideas, you've missed the main ideas about anarchy and anarcho-capitalism and such. Anarchism isn't about getting rid of the _current_ people in charge, it's about getting rid of _having_ people be in charge. On a cypherpunks-history track, Tim or Eric once proposed that the way to deal with slander in an uncensorable anonymous communication environment was to make sure that there was _always_ a wide current of anonymous slander against you going on, so you can dismiss any _real_ slander by saying it's just more of the same crap that some anonymous people always say about you, and that there may even be a market for it. (And Tim didn't even pay me to say that he's Detweiler's father...) ---- Bill Stewart bill.stewart@pobox.com
If you think those are anarchist ideas, you've missed the main ideas about anarchy and anarcho-capitalism and such. Anarchism isn't about getting rid of the _current_ people in charge, it's about getting rid of _having_ people be in charge.
Well, May seemed to try to make the case that all of those "useles eaters" were in large part responsible for the very existence of the state, and that collapse of the state meant the inevitable downfall of huge numbers of minorities (why he focused on them as opposed to white trailer trash I don't know). But he was definitely advocating that racist viewpoints fall naturally out of a crypto-anarchic approach. -TD
"But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction." Agreed. Though even his racisism seemed to have some kind of half-baked thought behind it. Or at least, baked just enough to deflect most of those not fully prepared to assail it. -TD
From: John Kelsey <kelsey.j@ix.netcom.com> To: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius... Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:17:30 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Steve Thompson <steve49152@yahoo.ca> Sent: Dec 7, 2004 1:26 PM To: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius...
...
Tim May has probably gotten all strange in the last few years, living in his remote hilltop home, waiting to see the end that will not come since the y2k crisis turned out to be nothing more than a financial boondoggle for the companies that believed all the hype.
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
...
Steve
--John
--- John Kelsey <kelsey.j@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[May]
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
That paragraph could easily be modified to make it a commentary on my posting habits, or indeed, on my general presentation from day to day. So, I will comment. On a pseudo-random but cyclic schedule, I am harassed, provoked, or otherwise experience incidents of aggression of one sort or another. This affects my mood and general state of mind to varying degrees. Furthermore, I do not have consistent dietary intake, nor do I live in an environment which allows or provides privacy, security, or consistency save that which I impose with the expenditure of a great deal of effort and patience. If you also consider the fact that I have been variously poisoned in recent years with everything from sedatives to stimulants to hormones to psychoactive compounds to low-level hallucinogens, and as well have been subjected to uncounted appeals to my subconscious in the main through the use of direct and indirect sexually exploitative imagery and encounters, you might get the idea that consistent literary output is simply not in the offing. Before anyone goes to the trouble of suggesting that I discuss matters with the police, I'll save them the bother. The police have entirely failed to allow my allegations the courtesy of a hearing. Not even once. I belive that those who have not merely dirties their own hands in some way, are too chikenshit to recognise some of the more subtle criminality that goes on in this country. Or they may be intimidated by the kind of agency[1] that has invoved itself in the kind of clandestine activity that is at issue. Add in the fact that I've been dealing with _some_ sort of malicious and interfereing bullshit for quite a few years without any sincere assistance of any sort beyond the odd informational giveaway of dubious provenance, and you might well conclude that whatever else is going on, I'm not a happy camper. Perhaps my inconsistent presentation mimics the inconclusive partial criterion for certain classical mental afflictions. This is convenient as such afflictions are conveniently viewed by the layman and professional alike as having an origin that is entirely internal to the individual in question. However, I have quite a bit of evidence of varying grades that support my position rather well. Time will tell, perhaps, the true nature of the matter in a fashion that leaves no doubt in the mind of the uninvolved spectator. But in the interim, that will have to stand as my overbrief outline of the reason why I exhibit inconsistency in writing, speech, and action. I am simply way too busy dealing with what can in one way be viewed as a chronic and personalised denial of service attack. Perhaps Tim May has an entirely different set of factors influencing his online behaviour. You will have to ask him to explain his circumstances, and hope that he consents to it. As for my case, I do not really wish to make it a topic of discussion on the Cypherpunks list. The law enforecement (and perhipheral) personnel who have involvement in my affairs, for whatever reason, are (and should be) fully aware of the external influences on my psychology. They have the investigative tools and authority to make definitive findings of fact, and to take corrective action should they find incidents of criminal liability, but as yet have refused to do so. And *that* is another matter entirely. Regards, Steve [1] general sense of the term. I'm not referring to, say, the CIA specifically in this instance. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Steve Thompson wrote: <snip one of the funniest posts in recent cpunk history> (STANDING OVATION) (SOUNDS OF MANY HANDS CLAPPING) Thank you Steve, for that short but entertaining look into the dark recesses of our collective consciousness :-) -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
--- "J.A. Terranson" <measl@mfn.org> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Steve Thompson wrote:
<snip one of the funniest posts in recent cpunk history>
(STANDING OVATION) (SOUNDS OF MANY HANDS CLAPPING)
Thank you Steve, for that short but entertaining look into the dark recesses of our collective consciousness :-)
That's what I'm here for. Now, perhaps we can get back to discussing issues with more direct relevance to cypherpunks? Regards, Steve ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
"If you also consider the fact that I have been variously poisoned in recent years with everything from sedatives to stimulants to hormones to psychoactive compounds to low-level hallucinogens, and as well have been subjected to uncounted appeals to my subconscious in the main through the use of direct and indirect sexually exploitative imagery and encounters, you might get the idea that consistent literary output is simply not in the offing." Sounds like a fuckin' party, if you ask me! Quit bogartin' that J... -TD
From: Steve Thompson <steve49152@yahoo.ca> To: John Kelsey <kelsey.j@ix.netcom.com> CC: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius... Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:19:06 -0500 (EST)
--- John Kelsey <kelsey.j@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
[May]
Maybe, maybe not. The thing I always find interesting and annoying about Tim May's posts is that he's sometimes making really clearly thought out, intelligent points, and other times spewing out nonsense so crazy you can't believe it's coming from the same person. It's also clear he's often yanking peoples' chains, often by saying the most offensive thing he can think of. But once in awhile, even amidst the crazy rantings about useless eaters and ovens, he'll toss out something that shows some deep, coherent thought about some issue in a new and fascinating direction.
That paragraph could easily be modified to make it a commentary on my posting habits, or indeed, on my general presentation from day to day. So, I will comment.
On a pseudo-random but cyclic schedule, I am harassed, provoked, or otherwise experience incidents of aggression of one sort or another. This affects my mood and general state of mind to varying degrees. Furthermore, I do not have consistent dietary intake, nor do I live in an environment which allows or provides privacy, security, or consistency save that which I impose with the expenditure of a great deal of effort and patience.
If you also consider the fact that I have been variously poisoned in recent years with everything from sedatives to stimulants to hormones to psychoactive compounds to low-level hallucinogens, and as well have been subjected to uncounted appeals to my subconscious in the main through the use of direct and indirect sexually exploitative imagery and encounters, you might get the idea that consistent literary output is simply not in the offing.
Before anyone goes to the trouble of suggesting that I discuss matters with the police, I'll save them the bother. The police have entirely failed to allow my allegations the courtesy of a hearing. Not even once. I belive that those who have not merely dirties their own hands in some way, are too chikenshit to recognise some of the more subtle criminality that goes on in this country. Or they may be intimidated by the kind of agency[1] that has invoved itself in the kind of clandestine activity that is at issue.
Add in the fact that I've been dealing with _some_ sort of malicious and interfereing bullshit for quite a few years without any sincere assistance of any sort beyond the odd informational giveaway of dubious provenance, and you might well conclude that whatever else is going on, I'm not a happy camper. Perhaps my inconsistent presentation mimics the inconclusive partial criterion for certain classical mental afflictions. This is convenient as such afflictions are conveniently viewed by the layman and professional alike as having an origin that is entirely internal to the individual in question.
However, I have quite a bit of evidence of varying grades that support my position rather well. Time will tell, perhaps, the true nature of the matter in a fashion that leaves no doubt in the mind of the uninvolved spectator.
But in the interim, that will have to stand as my overbrief outline of the reason why I exhibit inconsistency in writing, speech, and action. I am simply way too busy dealing with what can in one way be viewed as a chronic and personalised denial of service attack.
Perhaps Tim May has an entirely different set of factors influencing his online behaviour. You will have to ask him to explain his circumstances, and hope that he consents to it.
As for my case, I do not really wish to make it a topic of discussion on the Cypherpunks list. The law enforecement (and perhipheral) personnel who have involvement in my affairs, for whatever reason, are (and should be) fully aware of the external influences on my psychology. They have the investigative tools and authority to make definitive findings of fact, and to take corrective action should they find incidents of criminal liability, but as yet have refused to do so. And *that* is another matter entirely.
Regards,
Steve
[1] general sense of the term. I'm not referring to, say, the CIA specifically in this instance.
______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip] Sounds like a fuckin' party, if you ask me! Quit bogartin' that J...
Oh, sure. It wasn't all bad. Just ask the chick who is known in certain circles as Nefertiti. (That's her code-name). We had an excellent time together; or at least we did until the wheels fell off... But that's a story for another day. While we're speaking of pot, I should note that the grass available in this neck of the woods is substandard at best. What with all the illegal suburban grow-ops in Toronto, you'd think one would be able to buy half-decent weed from time to time. But no... It's all crap. Regards, Steve ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
In my family there's a famous story told of a particular musician who was busted on marijuana possession. His defense: "But your honor...it was only lemonade." -TD
From: Steve Thompson <steve49152@yahoo.ca> To: Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> CC: cypherpunks@al-qaeda.net Subject: Re: "Word" Of the Subgenius... Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:31:34 -0500 (EST)
--- Tyler Durden <camera_lumina@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip] Sounds like a fuckin' party, if you ask me! Quit bogartin' that J...
Oh, sure. It wasn't all bad. Just ask the chick who is known in certain circles as Nefertiti. (That's her code-name). We had an excellent time together; or at least we did until the wheels fell off... But that's a story for another day.
While we're speaking of pot, I should note that the grass available in this neck of the woods is substandard at best. What with all the illegal suburban grow-ops in Toronto, you'd think one would be able to buy half-decent weed from time to time. But no... It's all crap.
Regards,
Steve
______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Steve Thompson wrote:
While we're speaking of pot, I should note that the grass available in this neck of the woods is substandard at best. What with all the illegal suburban grow-ops in Toronto, you'd think one would be able to buy half-decent weed from time to time. But no... It's all crap.
You're scroing in the wrong neighborhoods. Try the areas which rely on grass for their day to day needs. A neighborhood heavily populated by Tims "eaters" would be best ;-)
Steve
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner
participants (9)
-
Bill Stewart -
Eugen Leitl -
J.A. Terranson -
John Kelsey -
R.A. Hettinga -
R.W. (Bob) Erickson -
Steve Furlong -
Steve Thompson -
Tyler Durden