------ Forwarded Message From: Josh Duberman <pivotalinfo@usa.net> Reply-To: <pivotalinfo@usa.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:19:51 -0800 To: <dave@farber.net> Subject: Re: [IP] No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye! Hi - I forwarded these messages to author David Brin. His reply is below, and he gave permission for you to post it IP if you wish. Thank you and best wishes - Josh ------------ Josh, thanks for sharing these remarks about privacy. Alas, these folks are falling for the usual trap that has snared so many well-meaning people for the last decade. They are right to worry about creeping Big Brotherism... and vigorously defending the wrong stretch of wall. What weird reflex is it, that makes bright people fall for the trap of seeing SECRECY as a friend of freedom? (Oh, when it's YOUR secrecy you call it "privacy.") To rail against others seeing, without suggesting any conceivable way that (1) the technologies could be stopped or (2) how it would help matters to stop govt surveillance even if we could. As I've emphasized in The Transparent Society, the thing that has kept us free and safe has been to emphasize MORE information flows. To ENHANCE how much average people know. http://www.futurist.com/portal/future_trends/david_brin_empowerment.htm http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/08/04/mortal_gods/index_np.html And yes, this is the one way to protect genuine PRIVACY... though any sensible person knows that the word will be re-defined in a new century flooded with cheap cameras. (For a look at the near future, see: http://www.ojr.org/ojr/workplace/1078288485.php) This inane reflex to try to blind others, instead of empowering citizens to look back, is like a drug, alas. But slowly people are awakening to the facts. The world will be a sea of cameras and vision. But that needn't be a nightmare, if we can hold the watchers accountable by looking BACK. With cordial regards, David Brin www.davidbrin.com <http://www.davidbrin.com> David Farber wrote:

Orwell was an amateur djf

------ Forwarded Message From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren@vortex.com> <mailto:lauren@vortex.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:38:28 -0800 To: <dave@farber.net> <mailto:dave@farber.net> Cc: <lauren@vortex.com> <mailto:lauren@vortex.com> Subject: No expectation of privacy in public? In a pig's eye!

Dave,

It's time to blow the lid off this "no expectation of privacy in public places" argument that judges and law enforcement now spout out like demented parrots in so many situations.

Technology has rendered that argument meaningless -- unless we intend to permit a pervasive surveillance slave society to become our future -- which apparently is the goal among some parties.

It is incredibly disingenuous to claim that cameras (increasingly tied to face recognition software) and GPS tracking devices (which could end up being standard in new vehicles as part of their instrumentation black boxes), etc. are no different than cops following suspects.

Technology will effectively allow everyone to be followed all of the time. Unless society agrees that everything you do outside the confines of your home and office should be available to authorities on demand -- even retrospectively via archived images and data -- we are going down an incredibly dangerous hole.

I use the "slimy guy in the raincoat" analogy. Let's say the government arranged for everyone to be followed at all times in public by slimy guys in raincoats. Each has a camera and clipboard, and wherever you go in public, they are your shadow. They keep snapping photos of where you go and where you look. They're constantly jotting down the details of your movements. When you go into your home, they wait outside, ready to start shadowing you again as soon as you step off your property. Every day, they report everything they've learned about you to a government database.

Needless to say, most people would presumably feel incredibly violated by such a scenario, even though it's all taking place in that public space where we're told that we have no expectation of privacy.

Technology is creating the largely invisible equivalent of that guy in the raincoat, ready to tail us all in perpetuity. If we don't control him, he will most assuredly control us.

--Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren@pfir.org or lauren@vortex.com or lauren@privacyforum.org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, Fact Squad - http://www.factsquad.org Co-Founder, URIICA - Union for Representative International Internet Cooperation and Analysis - http://www.uriica.org Moderator, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com

- - -

...

------ Forwarded Message From: Gregory Hicks <ghicks@cadence.com> <mailto:ghicks@cadence.com> Reply-To: Gregory Hicks <ghicks@cadence.com> <mailto:ghicks@cadence.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 09:42:03 -0800 (PST) To: <dave@farber.net> <mailto:dave@farber.net> Cc: <ghicks@metis.cadence.com> <mailto:ghicks@metis.cadence.com> Subject: Ruling gives cops leeway with GPS

Dave:

For IP if you wish...

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/storyprint.asp?StoryID=322152

Ruling gives cops leeway with GPS Decision allows use of vehicle tracking device without a warrant

By BRENDAN LYONS, Staff writer First published: Tuesday, January 11, 2005

In a decision that could dramatically affect criminal investigations nationwide, a federal judge has ruled police didn't need a warrant when they attached a satellite tracking device to the underbelly of a car being driven by a suspected Hells Angels operative.

[...snip...]

All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2005, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, N.Y.

------ End of Forwarded Message

-- Josh Duberman, Pivotalinfo LLC, 15100 SE 38th St. #819, Bellevue, WA 98006; Tel:(425) 746-0050; Cell:(425) 591-8200; pivotalinfo@usa.net; Information For Solutions In Business & Science ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------- You are subscribed as eugen@leitl.org To manage your subscription, go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip Archives at: http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]