-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 From: "Faustine" <faustine@lokmail.net>
My point was that without constitutional protection, it would be infinitely easier for innocent people and arbitrarily-determined thought -criminal"enemies of the state" to be shot right along with the real criminals. In America as it exists today, the Constitution is the only thing that stands in the way of full-scale repression in the name of "security". Be careful what you wish for, that's all.
I bet FBI agents have nightmares. At least those involved in the Waco and Ruby Ridge cases. I think they were unable to sleep at night, dreaming of a piece of paper jumping between them and their victims and threatening to... whatever.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did have nightmares about the Constitution. Not as a piece of paper dancing around on Mickey Mouse legs or whatever the hell you're getting at, but as an idea repersenting the rule of law that was going to lead to them being jailed for murder. Which unfortunately never happened, but so it goes.
Has anyone EVER saw the Constitution stand in any place, let alone "in the way of full-scale represion"? People with guns do that, not paper. Why do I have to repeat something this obvious?
(No, "it was a metaphor" doesn't cut it. It was a dumb metaphor. Next time you're arguing something, get rid of metaphors. As an exercise, try rephrasing what you said above without using any. Forget about "constitutional protection" or "Constitution standing in the way". Try to make sense.)
I'm sure anyone who speaks English as a first language didn't find it odd or have a problem understanding such a common expression. It's an idiom, not a metaphor. Your English is generally great, but you might want to have a look at various online ESL dictionaries of idiomatic usage if you have time, it probably would make things a little easier for you here. The language issue might also explain why you missed my original point. No hard feelings; I'd rather talk about issues than quibble over this sort of thing anyday. I'm sure if I were trying to do this in French or German instead, I'd be having the same sort of trouble myself. So here's hoping miscommunication doesn't -->stand in the way of<-- getting on with a perfectly interesting thread. ;) ~Faustine. *** The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedoms. - --William O. Douglas, Associate Justice, US Supreme Court -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 (C) 1997-1999 Network Associates, Inc. and its affiliated companies. (Diffie-Helman/DSS-only version) iQA+AwUBPB5Ihfg5Tuca7bfvEQJIBQCY7nWZVLTeUGSRNf3LSXr8TuJW4ACfbJ/2 v2A0B+jivjwGgDMnbsgpeXQ= =VLKD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From: "Faustine" <faustine@lokmail.net>
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did have nightmares about the Constitution. Not as a piece of paper dancing around on Mickey Mouse legs or whatever the hell you're getting at, but as an idea repersenting the rule of law that was going to lead to them being jailed for murder. Which unfortunately never happened, but so it goes.
I'm sure anyone who speaks English as a first language didn't find it odd or have a problem understanding such a common expression. It's an idiom, not a metaphor. Your English is generally great, but you might want to have a look at various online ESL dictionaries of idiomatic usage if you have time, it
Thanks for proving my point. (For the intellectually impaired: the Constitution never DOES anything. Your magical belief in its virtues is equivalent to pagan's beliefs in idols: they accomplish nothing. A law must be backed by force - and it's the FORCE that does this or that, not the law.) probably
would make things a little easier for you here.
Yes, I am sure that imagining the Constitution standing will make it much easier. Delusions are known to do that.
The language issue might also explain why you missed my original point.
Great. Try rephrasing it without using metaphors, idioms, or whatever.
No hard feelings; I'd rather talk about issues than quibble over this sort of thing anyday. I'm sure if I were trying to do this in French or German instead, I'd be having the same sort of trouble myself.
I'm not objecting to the language; English is fine. I'm objecting to delusions. Laws don't ACT, no matter what language you're using. You should rely more on your guns and less on your papers. Mark
On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Faustine wrote:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them did have nightmares about the Constitution. Not as a piece of paper dancing around on Mickey Mouse legs or whatever the hell you're getting at, but as an idea repersenting the rule of law that was going to lead to them being jailed for murder. Which unfortunately never happened, but so it goes.
One would hope that the same guys that swore an oath to serve and protect the laws of the USA would realize that the very first such set of laws was and is the Constitution. Certainly power does corrupt, but you've got to think that at one point in their lives before they became G men, they had it in mind that they were doing something good and wholesome in working for Uncle Sam, and protecting Americans and the American Way of Life (as defined by the Declaration of Independance, the Bill of Rights, etc.) Unless of course it was a choice between flippin' Big Mac's and workin' for Uncle Sam... but I digress.. :) They are supposed to be the good guys after all - serving the law (and by definition the greatest law of the USA - its Constitution). You know, they're supposed to be the ones wearing the white cowboy hats. The ones that never start the gun fights, but always win them, the ones that help old ladies cross the corral... Not the cattle rustlin', horse theiving, lying, cussin', motherlovin', train-robbin', scandal covering up guys who in the movies are always wearing black cowboy hats. Seeing creatures (as in the lore of H.P. Lovecraft) such as Janet Reno, Lon Hirouchi (sp?) and Jeff Gordon, one wants to walk up to them and ask "Where did you go astray? What corrupted you? Or were you just attracted to power like a horsefly to fresh dog shit?" ----------------------Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--------------------------- + ^ + :Surveillance cameras|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :aren't security. A |share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ <--*-->:camera won't stop a |monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :masked killer, but |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :will violate privacy|site, and you must change them very often. --------_sunder_@_sunder_._net_------- http://www.sunder.net ------------
participants (3)
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Faustine -
Marcel Popescu -
Sunder