Using Thermite to Drop Suspension Bridges...and U.S. plans to do so
Cypherpunks, Here's an item I sent to another forum about using thermite to cut the cables on suspension bridges. A couple of folks had claimed that using explosives on the piers and other support structures would be extraordinarily difficult to arrange (and detectable by bridge security personnel). I agreed, but noted in my piece that thermite quickly placed on the main cables could cut or weaken the cables significantly. (Merely damaging the cables by more than about 30% might require, for liability and public perception reasons, the shut down of the Golden Gate Bridge for as many months or years as it might take to replace the main cable--the cable is a continuous one, and is not "segment-replaceable." It is possible that some clamp bypass might be possible, but I would be skeptical that clamps could handle the tension.) An interesting part of the URL chunk included below is that the DOD endorses use of "peacetime" operations to collapse bridges...surely an act of "terrorism" comparable to bringing down the World Trade Center. (Oh, I forgot, if the CIA does it to a country we are not at war with, it's "nation-building," not terrorism.) I found this URL, and several equally-interesting ones, as part of my research on using thermite to collapse suspension bridges. Looks like the U.S. military has been planning similar ops for a while...could be why the alerts are being taken seriously by the gubmint. --begin excerpt-- From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net> Date: Fri Nov 02, 2001 12:26:29 AM US/Pacific To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: Dropping the Bridges is Easy [[ This message was also posted as: <021120010026271382%tcmay@got.net> ]] More comments on using thermite to drop the bridges: In article <011120012309364728%tcmay@got.net>, Tim May <tcmay@got.net> wrote: A conventional medium- or low-velocity explosion would not hurt the piers, obviously. Too massive, and MV and LV explosions, by definition, have little effect on such structures. Even a high-velocity explosion would have a hard time wrecking the piers. However, suspension bridges are obviously subject to having the suspension cables cut. Enough RDX would do the job even on the massive GG Bridge. However, there are lower-tech ways to do it even more easily: A thermite blanket wrapped around one of the main suspension cables of the Golden Gate would probably drop the span. Hitting both cables would be best, and matches the M.O. of the 911 attacks. A truck pulls up, stops, a few men wrap the cable with 60 pounds of thermite. Once ignited, should cut through the thousands of strands like butter. (A thermal lance might also do the job, but would require a man to aim the lance for long enough. This man could be taken out and the plan thwarted. Wrapping the cable is preferable...once that thermite process starts, essentially nothing stops it.) I found some sources showing that the intelligence services around the world are already planning to use such methods ("in peacetime," which many would call "terrorism," unless it's done by the U.S. of A.). Some quotes from http://www.ndu.edu/inss/books/milgeo/milgeoch11.html The Institute for National Strategic Studies, part of the National Defense University at Fort McNair and in Norfolk, VA. Note the mention of thermite, and the cutting of suspension cables. Note also that the manual is talking about doing these things as an act of terrorism (covert, against civil facilities). "Covert operations that conceal the identity of, or permit plausible denial by, perpetrators moreover may be politically prudent, especially in "peacetime." ....Brittle cast iron breaks easily, but acetylene torches or thermite may be needed to slice nickel-molybdenum steel, which strongly resists conventional explosives. Proper placement is at least as important as destructive power..... Professionals whose mission is to stop road and river traffic temporarily cut supports at one end of truss bridges so affected spans fall in the water; they cut trusses at midspan to make bridges buckle if long-lasting destruction is the intent. Massive towers and thick cables on major suspension bridges resist powerful explosive charges, but slender suspenders that hang therefrom do not--roadway sections collapse if they are cut." --end excerpt-- --Tim May ""Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." --Patrick Henry
At 09:42 AM 11/02/2001 -0800, someone claiming to be Tim May wrote:
I found this URL, and several equally-interesting ones, as part of my research on using thermite to collapse suspension bridges. Looks like the U.S. military has been planning similar ops for a while...could be why the alerts are being taken seriously by the gubmint.
Which Gubmint? CA Gov. Gray Davis appears to have taken the FBI's warning seriously enough to go out on a limb and announce that they'd gotten a bit more specific than "Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid, Terrorists are Hiding under the Bed and we WON'T TELL YOU WHICH BED they're hiding under because that would give away our sources and methods! But This Time it's Rilly Cred-a-Bull!" And I think they were only saying that because Jay Leno was giving them a hard time about doing a second no-specifics-attached iteration of "Wolf! Wolf!" and they were worried the sheeple might not fall for it. Of course, that's entirely separate from the problem of whether there *are* wolves, and whether they're more likely to opportunistically take advantage of the current wave of terrorism to do their own, or whether they're more likely to lie low because there are too many cops running around who might catch them, plus too many other people who might get credit for their work, or whether some of the wolves work for or at least with the Feds.
Here's an item I sent to another forum about using thermite to cut the cables on suspension bridges. A couple of folks had claimed that using explosives on the piers and other support structures would be extraordinarily difficult to arrange (and detectable by bridge security personnel). I agreed, but noted in my piece that thermite quickly placed on the main cables could cut or weaken the cables significantly.
I'd be surprised if you couldn't do the job with an OKC-sized truck bomb - stop it at an appropriate point on the bridge, have the engine compartment smokebomb go off to create plausible deniability, hop into the car your co-conspirators are driving just in front of you, and drive away. If your smokebomb is good enough, and you do it during low traffic, you might get off the bridge without getting caught. The question is how much you trust your backup co-conspirator who's sitting at the vista point with the radio transmitter.... If they're not keeping all trucks off of the bridges, they can't stop it.
An interesting part of the URL chunk included below is that the DOD endorses use of "peacetime" operations to collapse bridges...surely an act of "terrorism" comparable to bringing down the World Trade Center. (Oh, I forgot, if the CIA does it to a country we are not at war with, it's "nation-building," not terrorism.)
The Feds have apparently decided that they should drop their policy of helping the Peruvian Air Force shoot down suspected drug dealing planes, like that US missionary and her baby they took out this spring (shot them down and machine-gunned them as they swam out of the plane.) Not because extra-judicial executions are wrong, of course, or because shooting down civilian airplanes is terrorism, but because their accuracy has been low enough to cause embarassment.
participants (2)
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Bill Stewart -
Tim May