Social Security Numbers and health insurance
I need to sign up for health insurance tomorrow. I'm going to buy individual coverage from Kaiser. On their form, it asks for an SSN, of course. Well, Kaiser is not a government agency, and is certainly not associated with the Social Security Adminisrtation in any way, so they have no legitimate need for my SSN, and I don't want to give it to them. I'm wondering how best to go about doing this: 1. I could make up an SSN and give it to them. I basically just have to make sure it's one that hasn't been taken, and corresponds to my real birth county, right? 2. I could say that I don't have an SSN. Most people in the world don't have SSNs. Would they then require proof that I'm not a US citizen? Or will they just assign me some kind of policy number? That would be ideal. 3. I could refuse to give it to them, but I think they would probably then refuse to give me coverage. Any thoughts? I have absolutely no health problems that I'm aware of, and I'm not trying to hide any pre-existing condition, and my only medical records are things which say, "he's healthy", so I'm not trying to commit any kind of fraud here, I just want my privacy. Thanks
At 3:47 AM +0000 6/11/01, Dr. Evil wrote:
I need to sign up for health insurance tomorrow. I'm going to buy individual coverage from Kaiser. On their form, it asks for an SSN, of course.
Well, Kaiser is not a government agency, and is certainly not associated with the Social Security Adminisrtation in any way, so they have no legitimate need for my SSN, and I don't want to give it to them.
Then don't give it to them. You can refuse to supply the number, they can refuse to sell you a policy, and you can both walk away.
I'm wondering how best to go about doing this:
1. I could make up an SSN and give it to them. I basically just have to make sure it's one that hasn't been taken, and corresponds to my real birth county, right?
This would be contract fraud. When they ultimately detect it, they will have grounds for extreme actions.
2. I could say that I don't have an SSN. Most people in the world don't have SSNs. Would they then require proof that I'm not a US citizen? Or will they just assign me some kind of policy number? That would be ideal.
Those who are not U.S. citizens but who work in the U.S. are still required to have taxpayer identification numbers. If you claim you are a tourist just visiting the U.S. with no intention of working or investing, they may assign you a number IF they decide to take your business. If they determine you lied to them, see above about the extreme actions.
3. I could refuse to give it to them, but I think they would probably then refuse to give me coverage.
Indeed, their selling you a policy is not required.
Any thoughts? I have absolutely no health problems that I'm aware of, and I'm not trying to hide any pre-existing condition, and my only medical records are things which say, "he's healthy", so I'm not trying to commit any kind of fraud here, I just want my privacy.
Then deal with an insurance company which doesn't require SSNs. If you cannot find one, too bad. --Tim May -- Timothy C. May tcmay@got.net Corralitos, California Political: Co-founder Cypherpunks/crypto anarchy/Cyphernomicon Technical: physics/soft errors/Smalltalk/Squeak/agents/games/Go Personal: b.1951/UCSB/Intel '74-'86/retired/investor/motorcycles/guns
"Dr. Evil" wrote:
1. I could make up an SSN and give it to them. I basically just have to make sure it's one that hasn't been taken, and corresponds to my real birth county, right?
Wasn't that one of the things Jim Bell was charged with? -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 hseaver@cybershamanix.com Home 920-233-5820 hseaver@ameritech.net
"drevil" == drevil <Dr.> writes:
drevil> 3. I could refuse to give it to them, but I think they would drevil> probably then refuse to give me coverage. Don't give it to them. Tell them about your concerns and they just might find a way to deal. Many will, if pressed, assign an alternate ID number. -- Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/
At 03:47 AM 6/11/2001 +0000, Dr. Evil wrote:
I need to sign up for health insurance tomorrow. I'm going to buy individual coverage from Kaiser. On their form, it asks for an SSN, of course.
Well, Kaiser is not a government agency, and is certainly not associated with the Social Security Adminisrtation in any way, so they have no legitimate need for my SSN, and I don't want to give it to them. I'm wondering how best to go about doing this:
I've had pretty good luck, when dealing with private and some governmental organizations, with the following - "I don't give out my SSN for privacy reasons." sometimes adding, "Could you assign me a new number to use within your organization?" or "I have a nine digit number I use instead of an SSN, can I use that instead?" In particular, the latter is helpful where the person I'm talking to doesn't personally care what they enter, but the computer system or local policy is that a nine-digit number MUST be entered (or used as a database key), and they're not allowed to just make up numbers themselves. We can complete the transaction - I haven't lied nor committed fraud, they're not in trouble with their boss, and everyone's happy. There's no particular reason the nine-digit number you supply needs to be the same when you deal with different organizations, so you're limiting their ability to cross-link databases using that field. If they've got full name, date of birth, and address, they probably don't need an SSN to cross-link, it just saves some programmer and computer time. Kaiser assigns an internal "member number" which isn't your SSN for use within their system - but that's no reason to give them the SSN in the first place. -- Greg Broiles gbroiles@well.com "Organized crime is the price we pay for organization." -- Raymond Chandler
participants (5)
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C Matthew Curtin -
Dr. Evil -
Greg Broiles -
Harmon Seaver -
Tim May