Detweiler, Vulis, Toto, John Young, and mattd
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tim wrote:
And that we often see with your own posts, John. Namely, a mix of schizophrenia, dyslexia, paranoia, and Tourette's Syndrome. Some are more dyslexic than others, and it's likely that with some the word juxtapositions and malapropisms are completely intentional.
I used to thing folks were trying to emulate Detweiler, then Toto. Now I'm thinking there's some common miswiring in the brains of these folks.
Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick! Now that's a fine piece of psychobabble if ever I heard any. You really ought to spend some quality time with the MMPI and the DSM-IVR instead of dismissing it as "chick stuff". Not only would your insults be more to the point, youd also figure out what "normal people" have to say about YOU. Pot and kettle be damned, here you go, you beyond-good-and-evil Overman, you: The Mask of Sanity: An Attempt to Clarify Some Issues About the So-Called Psychopathic Personality by Hervey Cleckley (Hardcover - November 1988) *** Philippe Pinel (1745-1826) used the term insanity without delirium to describe behaviour that was marked by complete remorselessness, but the modern concept of "psychopathy" was put forward by Hervey Cleckley (1903-1984) in his classic work The Mask of Sanity (1941). According to Cleckleys criteria a psychopath is an intelligent person characterised by poverty of emotions, who has no sense of shame, is superficially charming, is manipulative, who shows irresponsible behaviour, and is inadequately motivated. Interspersed in Cleckley's vivid clinical descriptions are phrases such as "shrewdness and agility of mind," "talks entertainingly," and "exceptional charm" (Hare, 1993, p. 27). Cleckley also provides a striking interpretation of the meaning of the psychopath's behaviour: The [psychopath] is unfamiliar with the primary facts or data of what might be called personal values and is altogether incapable of understanding such matters. It is impossible for him to take even a slight interest in the tragedy or joy or the striving of humanity as presented in serious literature or art. He is also indifferent to all these matters in life itself. Beauty and ugliness, except in a very superficial sense, goodness, evil, love, horror, and humour have no actual meaning, no power to move him. He is, furthermore, lacking in the ability to see that others are moved. It is as though he were colour-blind, despite his sharp intelligence, to this aspect of human existence. It cannot be explained to him because there is nothing in his orbit of awareness that can bridge the gap with comparison. He can repeat the words and say glibly that he understands, and there is no way for him to realize that he does not understand (Cleckley, 1941, p. 90 quoted in Hare, 1993, pp. 27-28). ...The American Psychiatric Association's category of antisocial personality disorder (introduced in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Third Edition, 1980) was supposed to have covered psychopathy, but because clinicians were not thought sufficiently competent to assess personality traits the DSM definitions have concentrated on the antisocial and criminal behaviours associated with the condition. This has blurred the distinction between psychopaths and criminals, and of course most of the latter are not psychopaths. Antisocial Personality Disorder (category 301.7) is described in DSM-IV simply as "a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood This pattern has also been referred to as psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial personality disorder" (American Psychiatric Association, 1994, p. 645). This confusion of terminology is especially damaging for research because whereas DSM-IV describes APD as "associated with low socio-economic status" (1994, p. 647)psychopathy "seems less likely to be associated with social disadvantage or adversity" (Rutter, Giller & Hagell, 1998, p. 110). Robert Hare has described his attempts to identify true psychopaths as a prison psychologist in the early 1960s. Most of the personality "measures" or "instruments" popular at that time, such as the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI), were questionnaires based on self-reporting. When administered to psychopaths, who are expert at "impression management" (Hare, 1993, p. 30) these instruments are less than reliable. One of the inmates in Hares research program even had a complete set of MMPI tests and interpretation manuals and, for a fee, would advise fellow inmates on the correct answers to show the steady improvement more likely to lead to parole. ...Hare decided to construct his own Psychopathy Checklist in order to have a method of separating psychopaths from the rest of the prison population, and this method is now used throughout the world. The Checklist highlights the key emotional and interpersonal symptoms of psychopathy: psychopaths are said to be glib and superficial; egocentric and grandiose; to lack remorse or guilt; to lack empathy; to be deceitful and manipulative; and to have shallow emotions. ...while the non-psychopaths made the moral/conventional distinction, the psychopaths did not; secondly, and in contrast with predictions, that psychopaths treated conventional transgressions like moral transgressions rather than treating moral transgressions like conventional transgressions; and thirdly, and in line with predictions, that psychopaths were much less likely to justify their items with reference to victims welfare (Blair & Morton, 1995, p. 20). ...What is most outstanding about psychopaths is that they appear extremely at ease with themselves. They can be articulate, are often highly intelligent, and are regularly described as "charming", and "convincing". Psychopathy is not associated with low birth weight, obstetric complications, poor parenting, poverty, early psychological trauma or adverse experiences, and indeed Robert Hare remarks "I can find no convincing evidence that psychopathy is the direct result of early social or environmental factors" (Hare, 1993, p. 170). ...psychopaths use psychotherapy sessions to develop their skills in psychological manipulation, and because they see no need to change their admirable personalities (Hare, 1993, pp. 192-206). LOL!! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: Hush 2.1 Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com wl4EARECAB4FAjw407EXHGZhdXN0aW5lLkBodXNobWFpbC5jb20ACgkQGwpHwwWoj8Vf ZwCdHlDTWpA/ACJInOhnjys1yRPJMiIAni+6xN9NajYNoE2UZtu1S90dnM5a =I8Fv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
From Faustine's quote of The Mask of Sanity:
Interspersed in Cleckley's vivid clinical descriptions are phrases such as "shrewdness and agility of mind," "talks entertainingly," and "exceptional charm" . . . ----------------- Well, Tim, 2 out of 3 isn't bad. Or - wooops - maybe this is about Detweiler . . . <giggle> .. Blanc
Psychological and psychiatric catergories are entertaining to toy with, and the diagnostic manuals are a hoot, but none are as subtle and supple as language needs to be to convey what people do, believe, say and act. They are way too rigid and domineering to get at the complexity and unpredictability of human behavior. But simple-seeking minds are soothed by them. Similarly, grammatical language is pitifully limited in what it can communicate, and its adherents must bully their message to say what they cannot so long as they abide by the rigidity of a highly conventional structure, not of their own making, not even of their understanding as to what can be done contradicting the ever challengable conceits of grammar's illusory supremacy. Fortunately, there are numerous creative alternatives to rigid, authoritarian language as in all arts and sciences. Alternatives which the conventionally obedience ever attempt to demonize and castigate with simian terms of opprobrium. Psychoanalysis a prime tool, literary criticism another. Plain language philosophy, too, idolizes word structure, the false hegemon of the dictionary. Any more of this kind of shit writing belabors the obvious point that serious writing, along with serious thinking, is ridiculous, a conceit of mind and tongue unable to bear frightful freedom, afraid of its own yearning for disorderly structure as though there is something wrong with singing your heart out, and laughing at your tone deafness. A joke beats a wise statement any day of the week for content, style and performance. An unintended joke is a masterstroke. If it is upon oneself that is sublime. Take God's own case, a sublime lack of humor about the predicament sui generis. Nobody here has ever gone that far, though the best ones vainmostly aspire.
Any more of this kind of shit writing belabors the obvious point that serious writing, along with serious thinking, is ridiculous, a conceit of mind and tongue unable to bear frightful freedom, afraid of its own yearning for disorderly structure as though there is something wrong with singing your heart out, and laughing at your tone deafness.
This can be shifted to the information theory terrain. It's not _just_ about using the straight and prescribed language and constructs. It is about predictability in general. Most posters that I filter out are predictable to the point where I can, with decent accuracy, guess what they will say on any given subject. They can be described (scripted) as finite automata. And they have enormous integrity that they are proud of. Bricks also have integrity, but I always failed to find them entertaining - except maybe when they disintegrate on high impact. Then you get to see many irregular and unpredictable pieces. Some aspiring student of AI may find it an interesting exercise to customize alicebot to emulate some of the most integral cpunk posters (think timbots, mattbots, etc.) Frankly, I think that it's already been done. Sometimes I think that there are already alicebot implants. So it's all about entropy. Low entropy dwellers perceive high entropy ("high on entropy" ?) runners as danger that needs cooling. Or should I say kooling ? Why is that stupid ? Because we will all end up as cold iron, and it doesn't matter who gets there first. The last one wins. ===== end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
Quoting John Young (jya@pipeline.com):
Psychological and psychiatric catergories are entertaining to toy with, and the diagnostic manuals are a hoot, but none are as subtle and supple as language needs to be to convey what people do, believe, say and act. They are way too rigid and domineering to get at the complexity and unpredictability of human behavior. But simple-seeking minds are soothed by them.
More to the point, such systems provide the imprecision and convenience which some rigid and domineering minds need in order to impose their more subtle and complex belief systems on others.
Similarly, grammatical language is pitifully limited in what it can communicate, and its adherents must bully their message to say what they cannot so long as they abide by the rigidity of a highly conventional structure, not of their own making, not even of their understanding as to what can be done contradicting the ever challengable conceits of grammar's illusory supremacy.
Only by convention.
Fortunately, there are numerous creative alternatives to rigid, authoritarian language as in all arts and sciences.
Which are only useful if they are used as creative alternatives instead of forms within which convenient and common ideas can be re-expressed.
Alternatives which the conventionally obedience ever attempt to demonize and castigate with simian terms of opprobrium. Psychoanalysis a prime tool, literary criticism another. Plain language philosophy, too, idolizes word structure, the false hegemon of the dictionary.
Beware of false dictionaries and lexicons.
Any more of this kind of shit writing belabors the obvious point that serious writing, along with serious thinking, is ridiculous, a conceit of mind and tongue unable to bear frightful freedom, afraid of its own yearning for disorderly structure as though there is something wrong with singing your heart out, and laughing at your tone deafness.
Intellectual freedom and speech is only as good as the persons who excercise it -- and in this culture, it is mediocre at best.
A joke beats a wise statement any day of the week for content, style and performance.
But of course for effect the statesman's sage utterings are unequalled.
An unintended joke is a masterstroke. If it is upon oneself that is sublime. Take God's own case, a sublime lack of humor about the predicament sui generis.
You're losing it.
Nobody here has ever gone that far, though the best ones vainmostly aspire.
Or pretend. Regards, Steve -- Witness those little white men practising their alibis. -- Dean Russell
participants (5)
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Blanc
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faustine.@hushmail.com
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John Young
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Morlock Elloi
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Steve Thompson