Re: USA PATRIOT Act Survives Amendment Attempt
At 05:22 PM 7/9/2004, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, Steve Schear wrote:
Some months back I discussed a procedural methodology where patrons could find out if their records hand been accessed in a way that circumvented court orders. I was told that it might work but that frustrated prosecutors might press charges of conspiracy before the fact to evade lawful orders that 'might' be issued, even if the defendant had no reasonable expectation that this might occur.
But we have a psychological mechanism here; many people tend to be "tough" when not under direct threat. Then they implement the mechanism. Then years flow by. Then the prosecutors come. But by then it is too late to cooperate. They are doomed (though that depends largely on the available lawyers), but it can save the ones they were protecting.
The mechanism Steve suggested probably needs to be applied before you ever see a court order.
It seems that, by the prosecutor logic, just about any comsec improvement you implemented may be viewed as a conspiracy, including but not limited to secure email.
I am not happy to say this, but can we ever hope for designing any kind of secure infrastructure without some nodes having to win the martyr lottery?
Actually, frequent prosecutions could work to the advantage of a select few who choose to become martyrs. Since it would make it much more likely supplicants would be called upon.
....speaking about martyrs... I am just watching a TV document about cults. Maybe we could piggyback on religion and use some kinks within Christian doctrine, selected for having wide user base within Western civilization? Eg, finding a believable and theologically coherent explanation how operating a Darknet node helps undermining the reign of Satan (a voice suggests me that the Book of Prophecies, or how that horsemen thing is called, could contain enough of material to build on)? That could provide a decent amount of node ops using existing infrastructure of likely-minded religious organizations. Faith is a big motivation for undertaking risk, and while Westerners currently tend to be less radical than Middle-Easterners, this kind of mission is far from suicidal.
I posted a few months back offering an alternative to religion in recruitment: the terminally ill. Nostra
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 Nostra2004@SAFe-mail.net wrote:
But we have a psychological mechanism here; many people tend to be "tough" when not under direct threat. Then they implement the mechanism. Then years flow by. Then the prosecutors come. But by then it is too late to cooperate. They are doomed (though that depends largely on the available lawyers), but it can save the ones they were protecting.
The mechanism Steve suggested probably needs to be applied before you ever see a court order.
That's a matter of course. At the moment the Men with Bumazhkas come, it's too late to act. When the short circuit happens, it's too late to install the breakers.
Actually, frequent prosecutions could work to the advantage of a select few who choose to become martyrs. Since it would make it much more likely supplicants would be called upon.
Please explain this thought?
I posted a few months back offering an alternative to religion in recruitment: the terminally ill.
That's not good for this purpose; their lifetime is too short.
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:03:14PM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
That's a matter of course. At the moment the Men with Bumazhkas come, it's too late to act.
Bumazhkas? I thought I was pretty familiar with most weapons of the world, but not Bumazhkas. What calibre are they? I've always liked those CZ Model 52 pistols and Model 32 subguns in .30Mauser. Loaded hot with a teflon coated bullet they should punch thru armor well. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
On Tue, Jul 13, 2004 at 08:28:54AM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2004 at 07:03:14PM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
That's a matter of course. At the moment the Men with Bumazhkas come, it's too late to act.
Bumazhkas? I thought I was pretty familiar with most weapons of the world, but not Bumazhkas. What calibre are they? I've always liked those CZ Model 52 pistols and Model 32 subguns in .30Mauser. Loaded hot with a teflon coated bullet they should punch thru armor well.
Whoops, that should be "Model 23", not model 32. The 23 - 26 series from whence the Uzi got it's basic design, IIRC. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Hoka hey!
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004, Harmon Seaver wrote:
Bumazhkas? I thought I was pretty familiar with most weapons of the world, but not Bumazhkas. What calibre are they? I've always liked those CZ Model 52 pistols and Model 32 subguns in .30Mauser. Loaded hot with a teflon coated bullet they should punch thru armor well.
Whoops, that should be "Model 23", not model 32. The 23 - 26 series from whence the Uzi got it's basic design, IIRC.
Bumashkas belong between the highest-caliber weapons of the bureaucracy-centered governments. You don't want to meet the adversary armed with them. They are deadly and should be banned. ("Bumazhka" is a Russian word for "form" or "paper". The way I use it should invoke the associations to Soviet-style bureaucracy, requiring a stamped permission for just about everything.)
participants (3)
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Harmon Seaver -
Nostra2004＠SAFe-mail.net -
Thomas Shaddack