At 04:20 PM 6/28/04 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote:
From: a.melon@ Major Variola (ret) (mv@cdc.gov) wrote on 2004-06-27:
Any signal you put out is trackable to you geographically, whether its a cell or GPS frequency.
A GPS receiver doesn't broadcast its location. GPS works purely by analyzing the signals received from satellites. This is probably a design goal for military use, as well as a consequence of power requirements.
Yes. But a jammer will draw a Hellfire.
There is no such thing as a GPS frequency.
WCDMA phones the location service is defined in terms of messages on
I beg to differ, there are (perhaps >1) RF freq assigned to the Constellation. It seems that for CDMA or the
normal network layer, see a Google search for "position determination service order".
Yes its cheaper and allowed (for now) to triangulate (to what, 100m?) using physics; but GPS will become cheaper and cheaper.
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004, Major Variola (ret) wrote:
A GPS receiver doesn't broadcast its location. GPS works purely by analyzing the signals received from satellites. This is probably a design goal for military use, as well as a consequence of power requirements.
Yes. But a jammer will draw a Hellfire.
A $50 jammer for a $500,000 missile. Sounds like a fair trade to me. ;)
It seems that for CDMA or WCDMA phones the location service is defined in terms of messages on the normal network layer, see a Google search for "position determination service order".
Yes its cheaper and allowed (for now) to triangulate (to what, 100m?) using physics; but GPS will become cheaper and cheaper.
Which is good, because once the adversary starts relying exclusively on GPS and lets the other monitoring systems decay, we have easier way to "deny that service" from our handhelds. Physics is more difficult to cheat than chips.
On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 05:51:42AM +0200, Thomas Shaddack wrote:
Yes. But a jammer will draw a Hellfire.
A very local jammer won't. You underestimate how weak GPS signals are http://www.globallocate.com/resources_main.shtml
Which is good, because once the adversary starts relying exclusively on GPS and lets the other monitoring systems decay, we have easier way to
GPS will be obsolete in urban environments in less than a decade. Jamming UWB is much more difficult, since being local -- especially if the target doesn't cooperate (you don't know the PRNG state). And of course you can't send without revealing your position if location services are locked into the protocol. Use onion routing, then.
"deny that service" from our handhelds. Physics is more difficult to cheat than chips.
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participants (3)
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Eugen Leitl -
Major Variola (ret) -
Thomas Shaddack