I too had to put up with Dr. Fred on the firewalls list. I don't see what you hoped to accomplish by posting this off-topic mean spirited stuff to cypherpunks though. There are many others here that are also on firewalls, and we've let Dr. Fred speak for himself. Everyone has already formed the opinions they'll likely have, and it seems the only purpose of your tirade is to mean-spiritedly kick a man when he's down. It doesn't reflect well on you, it wastes our time, and is a bit sickening. Were you one of the people making the geek dance in high school too? I really wish you'd apologise to the list for this crap. We're here to discuss cypercoolness, not flame people, (whether they might seem to invite it or not). Lately this list has turned into a flame the geek list. It's not quite the fun it once was, and it's embarassing to watch. Patrick _______________________________________________________________________ / These opinions are mine, and not Verity's (except by coincidence;). \ | (\ | | Patrick J. Horgan Verity Inc. \\ Have | | patrick@verity.com 1550 Plymouth Street \\ _ Sword | | Phone : (415)960-7600 Mountain View \\/ Will | | FAX : (415)960-7750 California 94303 _/\\ Travel | \___________________________________________________________\)__________/