From: James A. Donald The glory days are long past, and cannot be revived by forming a new mailing list. ....................................................................... I've never thought of the cypherpunks as being of the mind to "abandon" the "worthless" masses to their own devices. Rather, I thought of them as being of the mind to associate among those who thought like themselves about privacy, who shared the values of self-reliance, who supported the ideals of individual liberty, and who were open to including on the list anyone who wanted to better understand the subjects which are discussed there. But that quote above reminds me of the patent office's statement, often recounted, of how everything which could be invented had already been invented, and there couldn't possibly be any more new ideas introduced. It all depends, as usual, on the individuals involved - on the quality they bring to the subject, to the list, to the enterprise. Interesting question: what do elite sophisticates *do*, once they've reached their pinnacle? .. Blanc