On Thu, 05 Sep 96 10:49:39 -0700, "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com> wrote: I have seen it repeated here often that somehow anonymity is some kind of a "right" that one should have in all kinds of different & important transactions, not merely on "cyberspace debate societies". I see here frequently the implication that *private*entities* that want to enforce identity in their own transactions are somehow implementing a corrupt, orwellian system. it sounded to me like that was all Dyson was advocating. The only time I've ever seen this point of view expressed on the list is when you and the other tentacles claim someone else is wrong for saying it (which they didn't, of course). No one has ever said "private entities" shouldn't be allowed to "enforce identity in their own transactions." This is exactly what Tim and others have been saying _should_ happen. Dyson, however, appears to be advocating some sort of identity tracking mechanism at the network level so that _all_ transactions are identifiable (albeit with some legal mechanism attempting to prevent "unauthorised" identification) regardless of whether the individuals involved want to enforce identity or not. Identification can be proved between the individuals concerned on a truly voluntary basis, without any such controls on the net. also, I think you are being slightly disingenuous in masking your own and other cpunks major objections to traceability, with the above, "this is all we really want". what about situations where the government requires you to give a physical identity for some kind of a license etc? do you think there are no such valid situations? is there any role for a government whatsoever in CryptoAnarchist Utopia and if so, is there any situation in which demanding physical identity is reasonable? If the government, or any other entity, requires identification it can be provided. I'm hard pressed to think of a situation in which the legitimate business of government (if any) actually requires identification. What do we need government to licence? -- Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz> --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paradise is exactly like where you are right now ... only much, much better. -- Laurie Anderson