Peter Herngaard wrote:
Mr. Frissell asserts that Germany lacks rights such as freedom of speech and association. This is not true. The German Basic Law provides for everyone the right to freedom of speech, religion and association. However, Germany prohibits hate speech i.e. National Socialism and incitement to racial, religious and national hatred.
I believe this is exactly what Mr. Frissell had in mind. Incidentally, I heard that last year there were a series of raids on bookstores for "hate" literature. One of the books seized was Art Spiegelman's "Maus". The justification was that it glorified violence. (Feel free to correct me if this is baseless rumor. ;-)
Reply to Duncan Frissell: If the German people desired to abolish the Radikalenerlass they could do so simply by changing their goverment precisely as U.S. citizens could abolish use of capital punishment against minors. Is there any difference?
There is a difference, in that calling for the abolition of laws banning 'hate speech' can easily be labelled as 'hate speech' in themselves.
I think it's true for banana republics. However, as far I know itsn't illegal in Germany to call for the abolition of all hate laws. But calling for the abolition of human rights is certainly against the law.
!!! It sounds as if in Germany one may not discuss even the most basic political philosophy without violating the law. I'm not sure what is meant by "calling for the abolition of human rights". What would be some examples of things somebody could say and what would be the penalties? (Presuming you are allowed to give examples, that is.)
Yes. But if the majority of the voting population *really* wanted to install a hate speech censorship regime, they could elect a House and a Senate being able to change or amend the Bill of Rights. It seems that criminalization of "flag desecration" to many is what hate speech is in Europe.
This is exactly correct.
In addition, we do not prohibit pornography, and obscenity is a non-existent legal category.
Another good point. Many in the U.S. have become so accustomed to these speech restrictions that it seems normal. Monty Cantsin Editor in Chief Smile Magazine http://www.neoism.org/squares/smile_index.html http://www.neoism.org/squares/cantsin_10.htm Subject: Re: Hate speech in Germany... To: cypherpunks@algebra.com 25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No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