Sten Drescher wrote: Adam Shostack <adam@lighthouse.homeport.org> said: AS> As always, the best answer to bad speech is more speech. Ken McVay, AS> and his Nizkor project, (http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) have been AS> involved in fighting hate speech, holocaust revisionism, and the AS> like for long time through archiving the big lies that revisionists AS> pump out, documenting the bogosity of their footnotes, showing their AS> contradictions, etc. Pointing out this, and other net resources AS> fighting anti-semitism is a much cleaner approach than attacking the AS> Wiesenthal center. Isn't this attacking, or at least opposing, them directly? Nope; its changing the terms of the debate. Saying 'you can't make this happen' is attacking them. AS> Someone noted the police stopping skinheads in Oregon-- I'll point AS> out that there is a substantial difference between talking and AS> randomly beating the crap out of people. The later is a fair basis AS> for action by police, although we may choose to question their AS> methodology. There is also a difference between stopping skinheads AS> and stopping blacks, in that the skinheads decided to wear clothing AS> and tattoos that identify them as skinheads, and thus may more AS> fairly be asked to bear the consequences. =09This is known as the "[S]he asked for it" argument, a widely discredited defense. If their _behavior_ doesn't indicate criminal behavior, and there isn't a report of a crime with suspects meeting their descriptions, there is no more excuse for hassling them than there is for hassling blacks, or hispanics, or.... Who knows, they could actually be a bunch of Marines (depending on the area). No, this is not 'she asked for it.' If there are skinheads who fit the description 'bald, black leather, swastikas' attacking people, then stopping people who fit that description is ok by me, as opposed to stopping people who fit the description 'black, medium hight, living in Boston,' which were the criterion here a few years back after Chuck Stewart shot his wife. The lead-in was people being attacked on the street at random. I thought I had hypothosized that they were skinheads. The crypto relevance might be getting thin. I think this will end my contribution to this thread in public. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume