At 6:48 PM -0500 9/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
Forwarded message:
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:18:28 +0000 (GMT) From: attila <attila@hun.org> Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
father: so... you "deny" God's existence since their is no "proof" of His existence. did you ever consider that in order to "deny" anything, you must have defined that concept? in other words, to deny God, you must have determined that I or someone else has defined God in order for you to be able to "deny" God?
So, what has the issue of defining something got to do with its existance? Is this bozo really claiming that God can only exist unless somebody thinks him up? Sounds like religous hubris to me... God was shinning on this asshole that he never had to argue face to face with me at that age...
Basically he is saying you can't deny the existence of something if you don't know what it is. God is a label on a definition. Change the definition, and you could conceivably change wheter "God" falls into the "Exists", "Doesn't Exist", or "I donno" state.
counselor: is there a difference between belief and faith?
The spelling.
father: aethism is a concept which is almost impossible to define as it is a denial that if it could it doesnt. it is much easier to defend "agnosticism" where you admit you do not believe, or have faith, because you lack sufficient scientific proof. aethism is not doubting, it is denying, even in the face of proof.
Agnosticism has *nothing* to do with scientific proof. It existed eons before anyone even thought of the scientific method. Skepticism is a part of human nature, not philosophy, beliefs, or science. Atheism is saying that while God could exist he doesn't. In other words it is the belief that God doesn't exist and can't be proven contrary. There is a fundamental belief that all proofs are flawed.
There are some atheists who would argue that in this universe, God (capital G, the Creator, Omni*, all good, Long white beard & sandals, god of ...) could NOT exist.
Agnosticism is the inability to believe one way or the other. It could be
Or simply indecesion.
suppose you die, and despite your lack of belief or faith, you find yourself before the throne of God.
My own personal suspicion is he's going to ask you whether you lived your beliefs even in the face of overwhelming opposition. As long as you say "Yes" he's going to be a happy camper. To borrow a Christian icon, he's going to want to know if you worshiped false idols.
He? Talk about hubris... Personally, I'm not an atheist any more, I'm a apathist. I don't care whether God exists, or even what his characteristics are. I care how whether each and every individual that affects my life acts responsibly and fairly. Other than that, I could give a shit. -- Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples. (These ambulance guys sure know how to party). The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html No, I don't speak for playboy, They wouldn't like that. They really wouldn't.