The ways of the alt.* hierarchy are such that it would be best if at least some of this discussion were made in alt.config . Virtually anyone can issue a newgroup message. The trick is to issue one that newsadmins will honor. That purpose will be well served by proposing and discussing the group in alt.config . Issues that sway newsadmins there include: The perception of need: The high volume of cypherpunks traffic plus the impending loss of its home on toad.com should be sufficient. "Proper" naming. Unless one is anticipating a growth of alt.cypherpunks.* newsgroups in the future (alt.cypherpunks.flames? alt.cypherpunks.sources? etc.) new alt.* newsgroups are better received if they don't have top-level names. Using existing top-level hierarchies is better (e.g. alt.security.cypherpunks or alt.privacy.cypherpunks). It is best to have a name likely to be considered well-formed already in mind when one makes the initial proposal, because bickering about naming can distract from the actual merits of the proposal. Tim's proposed charter is a fine start, and probably needs little or no modification. I say it's a fine idea. Who bells the cat? Alan Bostick | My conclusion is that this is most likely an | exceptionally well executed fake. It remains the mailto:abostick@netcom.com | most authentic alien image that I have ever seen. news:alt.grelb | Whitley Strieber http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick