Funny how threads mutate. Back when I started the topic, it was in a thread called "And you thought Nazi agitprop was controversial". It's now mutated to "<nettime> Re: Rebirth of Guilds" and is dicussing the freedom of lesbians to kiss in ballparks. Anyway, my main point (which was immediately lost in a discussion of certification programs for software engineers) was that whenever society permits some members of a profession to exclude other people from entering that profession, save in conformity to the prior members' "standards", you get high cost and/or low quality service. Lawyers and physicians do it through their professional organizations; and teachers through their closed shop union contracts. There are many other examples... Evil Studio Executive Secretary: "Get that projector out of here! We don't work with anyone who isn't properly guilded!" Mike Jittlov: (sotto voce) "You mean *gelded*." Peter Trei (who, for the record, does *not* have an engineering degree, electrical or otherwise. My degree is in Biochemistry.)