At 7:06 AM 3/10/96, JonWienke@aol.com wrote:
Who says they were going to blow anything up? It is perfectly legit for farms to have large quantities of fertilizer around--they use it all the time. Same with diesel fuel--what are they supposed to run the tractors and combines with? Dog piss? DUHHHH! As far as having the instructions for mixing them to go boom, who the hell made that a crime? You could bust most of the farmers in this country if you criminalize simultaneous posession of fertilizer and diesel fuel. Did these people ever actually mix any of the fert. and fuel together? Did they threaten to blow up anything?
My personal belief, from the news reports I've read (which may be incorrect, of course), is that the ingredients were for use in a bomb, whether or not they'd ever have gone through with it or not. The ancillary items found (dozens of assault rifles, weapons manuals, patriot literature, crank, meth, etc.), and the stockpiling of ANFO precursors, suggests an Oklahoma City-type scenario. This is what I think was objective reality. Now, before certain readers go ballistic, start foaming about how TCMay and his Tentacles of Medusa are pawns of Bill and Hillary, not to mention spawn of Satan, etc., I'm not saying that what they did is criminal. Having the potential to build a bomb or other deadly gadget is not the same as actually building and using one. But should law enforcement have waited until the bomb was actually built? Or actually loaded onto a truck? Or actually placed in a target area? Or actually detonated? Mightn't it be argued that until the bomb actually explodes, no crime has occurred? (A fine line. A topic oft-debated in libertarian discussion talkathons: if you see your neighbor preparing what you think will ultimately endanger you or your neighbors, at what point are you justified in taking premptive action? Certain extremists argue that at no point prior to your own death, for example, has an "assault" occurred. Less extreme folks argue that the assault happens when your neighbor begins to turn his gun in your direction. And extremists at the other end believe that potentially dangerous objects must be taken away from people long before they could ever put them to use. Ergo, gun control, restrictions on bomb-making info/anfo, etc. I take a stance closer to the first example, though I feel no qualms about hitting first if I really think I'm about to be attacked.) The argument that because farmers can use these products that the use must have been an innocent use is a weak one. Anyone with any common sense can see what they were up to. Who's kidding whom? But, like I said, this may not be criminal. And courts routinely have to deal with "conspiracy" cases to decide just how real the conspiracy was. (I don't care for "conspiracy" charges...too much chance for abuse.) Certainly the folks in Oregon will not face much prosecution, as near as I can figure. The weapons charges may affect their parole (some of them are ex-cons). The drug amounts are small. And the ANFO precursors....not clear to me at all that having these is a violation of the laws about explosives, but maybe it is.
This whole situation is nothing more than jackbooted thugs getting a rush by stomping on people. FTJBT
Overly simplistic. Don't misunderstand me: I share your anger at Waco, Ruby Ridge, gun confiscation, tens of thousands of laws, high taxes, etc. But I doubt the Oregon bust was a bunch of Waco Warriors assaulting the compound with tanks and helicopters. --Tim May, probably just added to Jim Bell's list of people he plans to have killed Boycott "Big Brother Inside" software! We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."