At 10:45 AM -0700 12/19/97, David Honig wrote:
The issue is confounded in the anecdote because the employer is government in this case, and we might expect government to be obligated to hire and fire only on the basis of merit. In a *free* world *employers* can fire for speech; government can't interfere in speech.
Yes, this was my main point, that when viewing government AS AN EMPLOYER there are things that government employer can do which would not be permissable, constitutionally, for the government to do to ordinary citizens. It can tell employees what clothing to wear (uniforms, dress codes), it can tell employees where they must be at what times, and it can even tell classes of employees what they may say even when not "on the job." (Without getting into nitpicking, there are rules restricting what employees of the military, for example, may say about political candidates. Does this restrict their First Amendment rights? Not if they agreed to these restrictions, as they did when they joined the military.) And the government as an employer has all sorts of abilities to fire employees who speak out of line. If the Secretary of State announces she is now supporting a Republican candidate for President, does not President Clinton have every right to can her? Or if the Director of the FBI announces he has proof that Martians are beaming signals into his fillings.... And employees of the NSA may be fired if they divulge information. Or imagine a senior White House official announcing that Christianity is sinful...are his religious freedoms being infringed upon if the President fires him? How about if he was making his comments "after hours"? It makes no difference. And so on, for many such examples. None of these actions, in my view (and apparently in the view of the courts, which have not thrown out such government-as-employer rules), are violations of the First Amendment, or any other amendments. Some employees of the government may have employment contracts or union contracts, and these may define the circumstances under which employees may be fired, or disciplined, or told what they can say. Now it may not be _smart_ of some government agency to try to restrict the off-the-job speech of military personnel, NSA employees, or Department of the Interior forest rangers, but the issues are not compelling First Amendment issues. The government AS EMPLOYER has the ability to impose restrictions on employees, as all employers do, that are fundamentally different from the restrictions government can impose on free citizens.
In the US today, employers do not have that freedom. Government outlaws employers freedom to hire and fire ---except against recreational pharmaceutical consumers--- and the populace considers this permissible in the name of harmony.
Indeed, we are moving away from "liberty" toward "fraternity" as the cornerstone of our society.
If one ever questions this in public, as Tim did, the liberal response is to show that unPC 'discrimination' is possible if humans are free, and then the dutiful citizen gladly sacrifices employers' liberty for their warm and fuzzy feelings.
The first amendment is about what government can't do to you, not what your neighbor can or can't do.
Agreed, except that I would add that the Constitution doesn't preclude the government, as an employer, from setting rules for its employees. Even in George Washington's day, I'm sure if one of the White House's servants announced that it was his constitutional right to say whatever he pleased and to wear whatever he pleased and to pray to Baal 10 times a day, that no one would take him seriously. (Perhaps a Supreme Court clerk can begin speaking only in Urdu, and then when he is fired he can file a lawsuit claiming his First Amendment rights were violated?) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."