A disturbing rumor/tidbit from the party I just finished discussing: Someone from Apple Computer said that Apple has been making "input" on the Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone/whatever thing and _endorsed_ the idea (or at least someone representing Apple did). Apple even discussed the pricing and said that if the Clipper/Skipjack chip could be sold to them for less than $30, they could "design it into every Mac." Phil Zimmermann was listening when this was said, and he was as shocked as I was. Can anyone on this list confirm or refute this report? (I don't want to name the Apple guy--several were at the party--unless he wants me to. But since he's not on the Cypherpunks list...) The fact that Apple is reviewing the "key escrow" proposals probably implies other hardware makers are as well. This suggests a whole behind-the-scenes movement to get Clipper/Skipjack/Capstone key escrow chips designed into PCs, probably in the communications/modem/network subsections. Speculatively, this could be a worse "fait accompli" than the Clipper proposal for phones, since not many people are planning to buy new secure phones, but a huge number of new Macs and PCs will be bought. (I assume folks can "wire around" the Skipjack/Capstone subroutines in some way, probably more easily than mods to the Clipper phones can be made. After all, it's software. So I don't claim the Feds will automatically be successful.) Many of us believe the "other shoe will drop" when a new Crime Bill (like the Biden Bill of a while back) is proposed, and key escrow is made mandatory for data systems. --Tim May -- .......................................................................... Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@netcom.com | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero 408-688-5409 | knowledge, reputations, information markets, W.A.S.T.E.: Aptos, CA | black markets, collapse of governments. Higher Power: 2^756839 | Public Key: PGP and MailSafe available. Note: I put time and money into writing this posting. I hope you enjoy it.