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Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:46:40 -0500 From: Petro <petro@playboy.com> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness. Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
That'll work for gasoline because soap and gasoline are soluble. I doubt it would work very well for alcohol but once I get this mess with the tree straightened out I'll do a little backyard experiment.
What I had in mind was to pour some alcohol on the concrete drive way and light it. Then use a waterbottle with a water/soap mix. Do you think that would be a suitable simulation?
No.
Ok, then what would be a suitable test in your view? It seems to me that after reviewing your comments this would be sufficient. We have a small pool of fuel that is on fire, we spray water on it and monitor the behaviour. We then create another similar pool and spary water w/ detergent in it and note any differences.
The point of using the detergent has nothing to do with it's solubility in gasoline/kerosene (I have much more experience with JP5 than gas, and JP5 is basically a high grade kerosene/diesel), but rather it is there to break up the water tension & allow the water to "float" on top of the gas/oil/whatever.
Actualy it's to keep the water from forming 'beads' because of differences in density. The surface tension of water is much higher than most fuels so if you put a little water in a lot of fuel you don't want it to bead. This is analogouse to why you put your injector cleaner in *before* the gas so that the difference in density won't effect the thoroughness of the mixing. You can do the same sort of thing at home with cooking oil, water, and detergent. As to water floating on top of gasoline, it won't for any lentgh of time greater than a fraction of a second, detergent or no detergent.
Actually, by using solar heating/cooling techiques instead of (ineffecient) conversion to electicity, you can save MUCH more energy.
I have several friends who are as fanatical about this technology as you seem to be. I find it interesting that in 20 years of playing with it they are still in the red. The proof is in the pudding.
I don't see how, you just get it up there inside the orbit of the earth, and let gravity do the rest.
If it was ONLY that simple. When you leave the Earth you have the Earths orbital momental (and it is considerable). I'll refer you to: Classical Mechanics (2nd ed) HC Corben, P. Stehle ISBN 0-486-68063-0 (Dover) $10.95 Introduction to Space Dynamics WT Thomson ISBN 0-486-65113-4 (Dover) $8.00 Because I'm way to lazy today to want to delve in to triple-integrals and such.
I don't mind killing a salamander or 100, but I don't want my electric supply, and it's attendant costs to be dependent on ONE technology, or source of supply.
If there is any alternative that will fulfill the requirements and doesn't require the arbitrary collateral damage then it isn't worth it, period. If for no other reason than the ethical responsibility to pass on the world as undamaged as possible to the next generation. (another oversite in current economic thought that I find makes it unusable)
We already have the have/have not situatiuon.
True, but only because the current energy sources are located in specific geographic areas.
I think there is also this issue that NG doesn't "burn" when the tank cracks, it "explodes", and when it does burn, it is very similar to alcohol in that it doesn't have much of a flame.
Actualy natural gas isn't any more flamable than gasoline or alcohol. What makes it safer is the gas diffuses in the air much faster than either alcohol or gasoline. In fact, in an accident I'd rather have a gas involved than a liquid because of this. I've seen several natural gas fires and they burn a yellow-orange (course they could be putting something in there besides the odorant to cause this). ____________________________________________________________________ The seeker is a finder. Ancient Persian Proverb The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------