Another Tim May attempt at changing history. "No, it wasn't ME that made that claim, it was Choate!, yeah, that's it. Blaim it on Choate." It's as lame as his 'Choate claimed Gauss' Law didn't apply' when in fact it was Tim who made the claim. Don't answer the question, complain about the quoting practice, or that it has an attachment, anything but participating as an EQUAL in a dialectic. Go back to the archives and you will find Tim May claiming that ANY HK rifle with *3 (eg 93 or G3) is a .223 whereas the *1's (eg 91) are .308. When in fact the '3 means .223' applied ONLY to the '90' (ie 91 or 93) class weapons. The reality (which Tim never admited either) is that a G3 IS in fact a 91, or the other way around if you prefer historical lineage. The G3 was the mil-spec and the 91 was the civilian clone. But hey, since when was Tim interested in FACTS? Never. He went on and on about the '3 means .223' and that this applied to ALL HK weapons. Check the archives. At one point I forwared a HK hompage asking him to explain the page. He never responded. Though he did continue the ad hominim. The rest of the points, who didn't make the 'other G3' or who happens to own HK today are his typical strawman argument techniques. Don't answer the question, it might be unfomfortable. As to people trying to paint life with broad strokes and ignoring the distinctions is another typicall May'ism. He's always making comparisons that are flawed because of some 'minor' point that Tim 'overlooked'. It's 'minor' because it usually blows a hole the size of a grayhound bus in whatever crank anarchist idea he's had today (crack induced is a supposition at best). Tim's general approach (Declan's as well) is "if they disagree with me they must be stupid". What you'll find is Tim making argument after argument but he never defends them. When questioned he simply attacks the questioner and hopes nobody notices he slipped the real point in the dialectic. He's always claiming how easy it would be to destroy this argument or that, but when it comes down to it Timmy always comes up short. He NEVER participates. He's quick to lay the challenge down but he's never delivered. A perfect example of intellectus interruptus. Look at the free market/economic equilibrium debate. He's quick to refer to Hayek, though never by particular quote that is verifiable. And when he is faced with Hayek quotes to the contrary he attacks the messenger. He's quick to suggest this or that book but when questioned he never has a responce. Sometimes I doubt he actually reads them. Just puts them on the shelf so he can be somebody. His backstroke isn't any better today than yesterday. Tim believe he should be able to dictate from on high and that he has zero responsiblity to other people with respect to treating them with respect or consideration, let alone responding to questions about his claims. Come on Tim, show us the email wher I (not you) claim Gauss's Law doesn't apply? Show us the email where I (not you) claim the G3 is not .308. Or that ESS's are real, or how the economic equilibrium is achieved in the bullshit anarchic free market. Etc., etc., etc. ____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 11 Jan 2001, Tim May wrote:
On Choate's point above, it is not FAL (a rifle, but I assume Choate must mean the maker of the FAL, Fabrique Nationale, now owned by another company, IIRC) who are making a caseless ammo rifle. Rather, it is in fact H-K. The G11 has been in development for close to 30 years now.
(H-K are _also_ owned by another company. Last I heard, a British company bought H-K, though the factories and design groups remain in Germany.)
Most NATO countries have now adopted some variant of the 5.56 mm cartridge, in either M-16-type variants or in bullpup designs like the excellent Steyr AUG or the newer HK G36 (with a civilian model, the SL8). Neither the caseless ammo of the H-K G11 not the flechette-firing prototypes are getting wide acceptance.
And as relates to Choate's "I was right" point, repeated again recently, the G3 in use by the German army was most definitely a 7.62 mm, i.e., a .308 Winchester. It was _not_ the 5.56 mm variant, at least not for wide use. (I say this because quibblers like Choate like to find examples where _someone_ used a 5.56 mm and then say "See, I was RIGHT!")
____________________________________________________________________ Before a larger group can see the virtue of an idea, a smaller group must first understand it. "Stranger Suns" George Zebrowski The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------