It is interesting to note that while both groups have opposite objectives (Hackers want all information free, where cypherpunks want everbody to be able to have privacy), and yet in there own ways, they are both right.
In> I don't entirely agree with this. I think both groups want In> information to be free, but also want people to be able to have In> privacy. Most hackers (used in the sense of people who break into In> computers) attack computers owned by such companies as TRW and the In> phone companies. Both of these systems have little regard for privacy. In> Most non-malicious hackers promote system security, but at the same In> time, don't like government-controlled monopolies and agencies to be In> able to keep secret information that should be free. A very In> interesting paper by Dorothy Denning (she used to be regarded very In> highly by the hacker community before she started to support Clipper) In> expresses some of the concerns and morals of hackers. It's called In> "Concerning Hackers Who Break Into Computer Systems" and is in Phrack In> issue 32.
I have read the file (I have all Phracks from the beginning. Crypt is good too, but they dont have the same level of information as Phrack) and I though that it was very inciteful (sp).
I think what we need to define is the diffrence between hackers and crackers. A hacker breaks into a computer like a cracker (but the similarities end there). The hacker just want to look and learn, possably "map out" the system just to see how everything works with everything else. Crackers break into computers for the sake of destroying or stealing information or the system itself.
In> That's debatable. I think many people incorrectly consider these In> terms to be mutually exclusive. There are many hackers (used in the In> sense defined in the Jargon File) who also break into systems and could In> therefore be considered crackers also. Most hackers definitely have In> the knowledge to break into computer systems, but many crackers aren't In> very well versed in programming and learn how to break into computers In> by using canned programs and G-files. I am saying that hackers do break into computers, but crackers are more malicious in their intent. And yes, pathetic hackers rely on programs. I have respect for hackers who do all the work themselfs.
Both cypherpunks and hackers think that the government is wrong in many things that they do.
In> Agreed. P.J. pjn@nworks.com ... Sorry, the dog ate my Blue Wave packet. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]