The Digital / Microsoft "Driving Force" tour is in our parking lot today and I got the opportunity to have a look around. One of the 'stations' inside the truck is on intranets. They were showing off a product called "AltaVista Tunnel" which I assume is their PPTP product. I say "I assume" because the guy showing it off had absolutely no clue what he was talking about. He triumphantly exclaimed that the encryption was 128-bit, but when I said "128-bit what?" he cowered and muttered that he didn't know and went on with his little speech. The rest of my crypto-specific questions met with equal dark stares. And these are the people setting industry standards... _________ o s b o r n e @ g a t e w a y . g r u m m a n . c o m _________ Real programmers programs never work right the first time. But if you throw them on the machine they can be patched into working in only a few 30-hours debugging sessions.