Well, since everyone seems to be talking about Dorothy Denning, I just thought I'd throw a few things out for discussion. Number 1, if someone is an encryption expert (as has been truly/falsely(?) claimed on this list), then why would they endorse anyone but the recipient being able to decode the message? Wouldn't the true belief in privacy be what would lead one to learn about such things? Or is it just a toy, as is surveillance? Number 2. People on this list have said that she's an expert in cryptography. When I read that damned Newsday article posted on cypherpunks, I thought that she was just a whiny college bitch. The argument was just very, well, flimsy is the word I guess. I believe that Clipper is wrong, but someone could at least write a paper that would influence more by pointing out its merits, rather than just saying that the government should start spying on all of us to stop drug deals.... Anyone know: A) Is she an expert in cryptography? B) Is she a college graduate? C) Was she dropped on her head a lot as a baby? D) Has she considered the alternatives that suicide offers? Just kind of annoyed at this whole Big Brother thing, probably because I'm reading 1984 right now... really a good idea if you haven't yet, and if you read it, they're is no way you'll possibly think that Clipper is a good idea... Also, I've gotten a message through to Ross Perot about our fight against Clipper, and how to reach me, so if I get a response, I'll let you guys know. Anthony