Well, actually, it's not even a hack to find out who the subscribers are... You simply use the EXPN command in the SMTP protocol to find out who the recipients of a list are. This is documented in RFC-821. However, the cypherpunks list requires a little bit of ingenuity, or familiarity with sendmail. I periodically get a copy of this list, just in case. Last I checked, there were 409 names on the list. Two were files, about ten or fifteen were either other lists, fidonet echos, or local USENET newsgroups. The rest appeared to be real people. Most of the apparent lists listed on the cypherpunks list were not traceable thru SMTP EXPN. If you desire real privacy, I suggest that you get the cypherpunks list, figure out which ones are hidden lists, and ask to subscribe to those. If it is desired, I can send a list of these lists to the cypherpunks list. Kragen