The conversations on guns, Wei Dai's statement "if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need crypto?", and this idea on Digital Societies, brings up a consideration: in the new digital age of anonymity, independent psyops ("psychological operations"; never heard of "psychops"), potential AP arrangements, etc., when governments are made obsolete sometime Real Soon, and people have to depend more and more upon their own resources, how will individuals defend themselves from _immediate_ physical aggression, if not by having their own personal stock pile of weapons and ammo, since they can't call upon the Centralized Gun & Ammo Depot? I remember an article in a book by Ayn Rand, on "Competing Governments", where she said that having services provided by more than one such defense service would create many problems, and provided arguments against the feasability of such arrangements. I know there have been references on the list in the past about some civilization along time ago which existed in Iceland which dealt with this, but I haven't got around to reading about it (can someone provide a book reference?). .. Blanc