On Thu, 1 May 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote:
I think that some of the people here have some fantasy that the state will totally wither away and there will be no restraints on anyone's behavior except economic ones. Or else believe in some equally fantastized society where everyone will just willingly respect others and all will live in peace and harmony -- which is absurd, especially given the fact that for whatever reason, young people are increasingly oblivious to the rights of others and very much unconcerned with anything but thier own gratification.
"young" is a point of view too. Did you care much more about anything but yourself when you were 1 year old? Of course not, and I don't think that view expands all that fast for most people. By the time we're ten, we know the rest of the world is out there, but who cares? The basic view is "how does it affect *me*?" Nobody cares about the rights of others, they only care about themselves. Which is why we end up with stupid laws. Being able to abstract what we want to others always involves the assumption that others are like us. That's why politicians are so good at name calling, they know they lie cheat and steal, so they blame the other guy for doing the same thing. Jumping up a level of abstraction to figure out how we really can all be different and still get along is a very hard chore. This list is a microcosim of the whole world - it's weird, it's different and it has more than enough town fools. Some temples burn incense all day long - that's "smoking" too. Is a zoning law going to interfere with first amendment rights of religion? Maybe. Airports are always initially built far away from cities, and then people move in around them and complain about the noise. It's the same thing - you try to solve the problem, but it comes back later anyway. Being able to draw lines and say where and when things are allowable makes more sense than banning behavior. If some societies decide smoking in public isn't allowed, that's one solution. Other societies might choose to draw the line in children's parks. The point is the group that decides has to live with its decisions - and we can argue all we want about how stupid the decisions are, but we still gotta convince the voters to change their minds. And until it directly actually affects them, most people just won't care. Freedom is too abstract, until it's *your* door that gets kicked down in the middle of the night. Especially if you happen to be smoking ganja. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike