In Australia the gun lobby are now deeply distrusted. During the current crackdown on high powered and repeating weapons they have made many statements, at all levels of their movement, that indicate that they want the guns in order to kill people and to give themselves the option of insurrection. Unlike the US this is not an activity that is supported by the constitution and the people are strongly against it. If we assume that the gun lobby will lose, [please I am not discussing whether it *should* lose and I'm not interested in arguments on this so send them to the list not to me], then supporters of privacy and freedom through cryptography do the cause a great disservice by associating themselves with the gun lobby. In fact we are passing up a great chance to sell the cause of communication freedom through cryptography by arguing: Communication privacy through cryptographic technology is a necessary counter-balance to the inevitable increase in state control of public spaces [in an age when weapons technology permits weapons that can kill large numbers of people to be easily concealed]. Secure electronic communication is the freedom that carries no direct risk to other people. It is the one that must be preserved in a free society. The 1990s is the decade of the bloodless revolution built on the freedom of communication. Preserving free communication is the vital step in countering out-of-control governments and criminal organizations, and cryptography is the way to keep communication free. I don't think this line of argument will appeal to cypherpunks but if there are other organizations running this line I'd be keen to support them. Bob Smart