Re: IP: Wanna make biological weapons and take out cities? $10. (fwd)

Nobody is saying that free expression includes inciting a riot or soliciting murder. But it does generally include the right to write a book (and read it) without being targeted by the government. What you wrote that raised eyebrows was this:

I sure hope that the government is investigating and following each and every person who buys a copy of this book... I wonder if there's a way to force Tobiason to foot the bill for that security?

There are plenty of books I can think of -- almost all of the Loompanics catalog -- that would fret some government official. David Burnham's books on the IRS and DOJ abuses of power are another. But I hardly think it's consistent with the First Amendment to investigate the people who buy them, or make the authors pay "protection money" for the privilege of publishing. Then you wrote in the message below:

How many sets of these "terrorism cookbooks" do you let fall into the hands of psychotics? We already don't sell guns to convicted felons... gee, that sounds to me like "prior restraint"... or do you think THAT's wrong, too? There are some things that are so terrible that you simply can't wait to prosecute or criminalize until AFTER the fact of their happening.

My translation of that is "we must require background checks on people who buy books, newspapers, or magazines" that some FBI officials dislike. (I look forward to seeing how you'll extend this to the Internet. AdultCheck, anyone? How about posts on the cypherpunks list or other fora that include more scientific or technical information than you feel comfortable with?) My translation of your last sentence is "we must criminalize the publication of certain technical or scientific information just because some bad people may get their hands on it." Comparing background checks for gun purchasers (in an approving way) to background checks to books is just nutty. Now do you see why your post is so at odds with the principles of a free society? If not, I'm not sure you're educable on this issue. -Declan At 02:33 AM 11/22/2001 -0600, gep2@terabites.com wrote:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:

...

Clearly "gep2" does not understand principles of free expression and limited government. A shame.

I understand free expression and limited government just fine.

Free expression does not include shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre, and it also doesn't include inciting a riot or soliciting murder.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of lunatics and crazies in our society, and you simply can't let those types of people have their finger on the nuclear button (it's bad enough when our _President_ [especially THIS one] can do that).

Some suicidal maniac or manic depressive (or even just mean drunk) could easily just get pissed off and decide to take 100,000 or a million or something other people out with him... we've had situations like that (snipers from the tower at UT Austin, dispondent students in high schools, Timother McVeigh, and so forth... fortunately limited by their technical capability to kill on a MASSIVE scale.)

It's bad enough when someone like Osama bin Laden kills several thousands of people with hijacked airliners. (At least there, there IS a response possible... for better or for worse... as we've seen).

It's quite another matter when some maniac commits suicide and takes half a million or a million other people out with him. (And how do you respond THEN? Presuming here that you're talking about some right-wing wacko (American citizen!) who's already now dead? Does the government just say, "Gee, isn't that just awful!"? Or you do something to try to prevent it from happening BEFORE it does?)

And if it DID happen... do you sit back and let some copycat then do it again? And another do it AGAIN? How many times do you just sit back and wring your hands in despair? How many sets of these "terrorism cookbooks" do you let fall into the hands of psychotics? We already don't sell guns to convicted felons... gee, that sounds to me like "prior restraint"... or do you think THAT's wrong, too?

There are some things that are so terrible that you simply can't wait to prosecute or criminalize until AFTER the fact of their happening.

Gordon Peterson http://personal.terabites.com/ Support the Anti-SPAM Amendment! Join at http://www.cauce.org/ 12/19/98: Partisan Republicans scornfully ignore the voters they "represent". 12/09/00: the date the Republican Party took down democracy in America.