[Tim said, roughly, that public actions to replace DES have not revealed anything about what the NSA & Co. know about DES's weaknesses.] Which I guess is part of what I was driving at. The other part of what I was driving at: DES is becoming crackable by pure brute force. Doesn't 3-DES solve that problem for a few orders of magnatude? If 3-DES is so simple a variation on DES, then what is wrong with DES that 3-DES doesn't solve? (Yes, it is slower in SW than IDEA--I am talking security for the moment.) -kb, the Kent who is leery of the new-fangled when the old seems so easy to fix -- Kent Borg +1 (617) 776-6899 kentborg@world.std.com kentborg@aol.com Proud to claim 39:30 hours of TV viewing so far in 1994!