Some ideas (fwd)

Hi Doug, Forwarded message:

From: "Douglas R. Floyd" Subject: Some ideas Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:18:14 -0600 (CST)

I have been pondering this: To save on bandwidth, I wonder about having two types of OSS sites

OSS?

-- a "control" site which switchboards incoming/outgoing stuff to "data" sites.

Which needs to have access to at least *all* incoming requests for data as well as a channel to other switchboard sites so they can catalog those requests and won't have to look them up more than once, after that they simply use the request as a key to a index of sources.

This would help with distributing bandwidth load, and since "data" sites just store encrypted items, the "control" site can be made more secure.

I suspect all the traffic would need to be encrypted to get this to work well. The channels between the switchboards and the databanks also need to be encrypted in such a manner that it is transparent even to the operators what the keys are at any given time. Also, assuming the user provides a request to a switchboard, who then determines the correct server through some mechanism, contacts that databank server and requests a transmission, and finaly the databank server sends the data to the user. How do we track the various keys and verify that the user making the request is the user getting the data? Is the switchboard and databank servers simply tracking the key provided by the original request sufficient?

Another random thing is a way to build a CD-ROM jukebox that would automatically burn a CD when data meets the requirements of "valuable", and "offline". Then, when the data is needed again, its fished out and loaded.

What you need is a pick-and-place system. It would consist of a handling mechanism, a burning mechanism, a jukebox mechanism, and a CD storage mechanism. Personaly I wouldn't want them all in one in case any one broke down the rest of the system could still keep working. Valuable to who? For how long? Who pays for the stack of CD's up front? What kind of amortization schedule are we looking at for paybacks? Since we are looking at a automated system, what does 'offline' mean when the pick-and-place goes over to the rack and pulls the CD to place in the jukebox and it is now online? How do we charge the user?

Some type of IP encapsulation using public key encryption, so machine A that is talking to machine D would encapsulate the whole packet with machine D's key, C's key, and B's key. Then the packet is sent to box B, which decodes it, looks where to send it, then kicks it to C. C then looks at it, sends it to machine D. Basically a "remailer", where each packet is a message.

Is this feasable at all?

Yeah, mixmaster does something similar to this. The problem I have with mixmaster is that the sender has to set up the chaining and keys and such. There simply isn't a clear mechanism (as I understand mixmaster) to do this transparently. One look at the chaining file that is required is enough to explain why granny doesn't use chained mixmaster remailers. Now if we want to do it in the protocol stack then we have a problem because it isn't supported in the standard. What I would do is a little different. An example... Let's assume we have 4 remailers, A to D. The sender sends a packet to A that's header is in the clear. Once A gets it, addressed to an appropriate user to invoke the decryption process, it decrypts the body of the packet. What it assumes is there is another valid packet with unencrypted header which it passes on to B. B gets it and de-crypts it and passes it on. This happens in C and D as well. At no point does any of the processes need to do anything other than use its own key to decrypt. If that fails the packet is trashed. Since no information about its previous source was passed to D from C this failure won't propogate back up the chain, providing a measure of source security. D takes the packet, whose body is still encrypted and remails it to the next address in the header, in this example the actual destination. The issue for me is how do the remailers handle the pass-off. Here are a few of the choices: - the existing mechanism which is completely dependant on the user and their technical skill. I don't like this one, too people intensive. - the sender does it by reference to a key-server and automated chaining software. The software would ask for a sequence of available remailers from the user, go off to the key-server and get the appropriate keys, and create the nested encrypted packets. Then it only has to send them on their way. Still a tad too technical for granny I suspect. - the sender provides a source destination and a number of remailers. The software goes to the key-server, looks up the available remailers (hopefuly there are more than the number requested by the sender) and selects the appropriate number through some mechanism (PRNG is my choice). It then creates the chained packet and sends it on its way. I suspect granny could deal with this one, she knows how to count and has sonnie's email address in her mailer software. What I like about this is the key server represents a mechanism for income. It would cost say $1/month to store your key on the server and then anyone who made the request would get it. The key would automaticaly age and expire if the user didn't keep paying the fee. Further, there would be no distinction between remailers, users, or other processes as to the actual key. It would consist of a list similar to: ::: for example: ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:PGP:3$@48@DDcq* (note that some sort of escape mechanism needs to be included so that :'s can be used in keys as well. I put the actual key last. That way I know that any : after the encryption_protocol is a part of the key.) I would have to make requests of the sort: : ie: ravage@ssz.com:* Where '*' would return a complete listing for that ID of all registered keys. So to use it I would send an email with the key request(s) in the body one to a line and sent it to 'key-server@ssz.com'. The key-server would return something like: Request: ravage@ssz.com:* Key(s): ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:PGP:#sD81xD@)d Now there is a problem if the key is multi-part. To handle those I would put each key part on a seperate line: Key(s): ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:Multi-Key:23$@%dSk* ravage@ssz.com:12/30/98:Multi-Key:4dseP2*! So what you would end up with is: Request: <data> Key(s): <data> Request: <data> Key(s): <data> <data> Request: <data> Key(s): <data> Hope that helps. If you use the key server idea as I am explaining it please make shure I get credit for it. As far as I am aware nobody else is using a system similar, nor has one been proposed by other parties. If you find this is an error on my part please let me know. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________|