I have thought that it is a losing strategy to debate the wire tap chip on purely tech terms as I feel the NSA would have more technology up their sleve, changing the MO as we object to specific points and probally making themselves SEEM responsive to the gov/congress/Admin. First we had 40 bit key halves then we got 80-bit XORed and now: CAPSTONE: THE NEXT GENERATION, with DSS, etc... We need to make broad specturm attacks on both spef. technical points and social points. We need to say/talk to How this country was founded. We did to say Ok, NSA/FBI is right and the world has changed. But it will keep on changing... like our Founders, we need to plot a course that will hold true not for a few years but for the next two hundred. This is stuff that shouldn't be debated in private by NSA and Bill C. /harry -- Harry Shapiro habs@panix.com List Administrator of the Extropy Institute Mailing List Private Communication for the Extropian Community since 1991