On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:39:35 +0000 (GMT), The Deviant wrote: On Mon, 25 Nov 1996, Dana W. Albrecht wrote:
so often, I refer to systems for which rigorous mathematical proof that "there are no shortcuts" exists. To my knowledge, no such systems, with the exception of a real one-time pad, exist today. However, I also
As I have argued many times, that is correct. OTP, with real random numbers, and no-reusage, etc, etc, is the only "perfect" cryptosystem, and even it has its problems (like key exchange, for instance). The only one known at this time, not necessarily the only one possible. Are you aware of some proof that no other cryptosystem can be secure (in the way Dana talks about)?
Rigorous proofs of the non-existence of an algorithm are not new. Neither are rigorous proofs that any algorithm which can solve a given problem requires a minimal running time. Or, in an even stronger sense,
Hrmmm... I seem to see a problem (namely Moore's first law) in assigning There's a Moore's second law? anything a "minimal running time". Perhaps "minimal instruction count" would be more suited to your example. Because if you're talking about time, it essentially boils down to "the longer something takes the less time it takes". "Minimal running time" doesn't really mean time in hours. Obviously hardware gets faster all the time. It means complexity -- O(n^2) takes more time than O(log(n)), regardless of how fast your hardware is. In other words, if takes f(x) time units, but the units are arbitrary. "Minimal instruction count" is pretty meaningless (change the instruction set to arrive at any figure you like).
that a particular known algorithm for a given problem is indeed a (provably) optimal algorithm for that problem.
Never happen. It just won't. As a rule, there's _always_ a faster way. But there _are_ such proofs ("reductio ad absurdum". Assume this is _not_ the best algorithm. Then there is some better algorithm. Figure out some properties this better algorithm must have. Something like "1 == 2" comes up, therefore there is no such better algorithm.) Of course you can do it (whatever "it" is) faster with faster hardware, or maybe better implementation. And there are sometimes special-case shortcuts...(a OTP has innumerable "weak keys" -- all '0's being the most obvious -- of course it's _possible_ that your random pad just happens to transform your real message into valid English text, but I doubt this argument would save you from the firing squad :-) The chance of generating an all-'0' pad ((1/n)^x, n=range of values in pad, x=number of blocks (characters) in message) is a lot better than the chance of getting some unrelated-but-meaningful text as output (I don't even know where start on that one -- it's the "monkeys in the British Museum" scenario))
Turning once again to cryptography, there is presumably an "optimal" algorithm for factoring a "general" number in the "worst" case. Of
Ok, now I have to pose a question: If cryptographers actually beleive this, why continue to search for a faster one. Because no-one's found the optimal solution yet (or at least not proved that it is optimal).
"optimal" algorithm. Worse case bounds on running time for currently known algorithms can certainly be produced, but no one currently knows if these are the best algorithms.
Again I say, there's _always_ a faster way. But you're arguing "faster" in terms of clock time (which is obviously true, but not necessarily useful). Something that takes O(n^2) time can be done in arbitrarily short clock time (given fast enough hardware), but is still slower than something that takes O(log(n)) time. If you make n big enough, the O(n^2) calculation may not be worth doing, while the O(log(n)) calculation is still fairly fast (in reality, of course, you'd prefer something that takes much longer than n^2). -- Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz> --- PGPmail preferred PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33 C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Christ: A man who was born at least 5,000 years ahead of his time.