In> Rather than debate semantics of the definition of "hacker," or ask In> others to suggest definitions, it might be better for interested folks In> to read some of the various books on the topic and then decide for In> themselves. Some of them are: In> - Levy, "Hackers," of course Very good history. In> - Haffner and Markoff, "Cyberpunk" In> - Sterling's book on hackers Hacker Crackdown. In> - any one (but not more) of the several Shimomura v. Mitnick books I think that Markoffs book on the incident was written beter then the rest. I might also suggest: - Masters of Deception - The Cuckoos Egg by Stoll P.J. pjn@nworks.com ... Resistance is futile, taglines will assimilate your hard drive. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]