A 'right' is an activity that any individual could engage in (at least in principle) while 'in a state of nature'. So what does 'in a state of nature' imply? It implies human activity a priori to the concept of 'civilization'. What are the limits of such activities? Isolation, sharing, and force. The concept of 'force' is required because not all individuals want to share. Isolation allows an individual to engage in any desired activity for the simple reason there is no potential interference. Sharing, such as in a family group, such that resources are distributed but at the same time have more persons active in its 'management' (I draw a distinction here becuase of such things as Clovis Point behaviour). And finaly, force. The ability of one individual to significantly impact anothers physical being directly. Why do people institute 'civilization'? Because we can't live in isolation. There are groups greater than families. And finaly, because not all individuals will use force in the same manner. The concept of 'right' is intimate and irremovable from the concept of 'coercion through physical force'. Why? Because one can't have a 'right' unless one also has the ability to use force to defend it. What does it take to use 'force'? Existance and motivation/desire, irrespective of whether we talk of 'a state of nature' or 'civilization'. One can not remove the concept of 'right' from 'force'. They are not seperate concepts or entities (similar to momentum). The only way to mitigate the use of 'force' is to mitigate 'desire'. The only way to mitigate 'desire' is to use 'force' (or at least make it clear that if a behaviour is engaged in force will ensue). To do this we institute a (hopefully) common system whereby the inter play between 'force' and 'desire' are hopefully balanced. Note that there is nothing in nature which implies that force and desire will be mitigated in and of themselves (so much for CACL philosophy). In fact, if one looks at game theory it becomes abundently clear, even given the utility of game theoretic concepts, that the best strategy is not to play by the rules given a choice (this helps explain why non-sentient biological activity conforms to game theory in many cases). This of course destroys any concept of 'utopia' where everyone plays by the same rules all the time without exception. -- ____________________________________________________________________ Day by day the Penguins are making me lose my mind. Bumper Sticker The Armadillo Group ,::////;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'///// ``::>/|/ ravage@ssz.com www.ssz.com .', |||| `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- --------------------------------------------------------------------