I am NOT interested in arguing the merits or lack thereof of Kermit. Kermit IS used, but rarely on PCs, and VERY rarely in what appears to be the target market. Remember that we're talking about a general-user, friendly application for the compuklutz. After being spoiled by QModem, there is no way in hell, heaven or otherwise that many of them will use Kermit or something based on it, unless it offers all that QM does (incl. Zmodem, external protocols, cute menuing interface, etc.) I think there's a confusion here, namely that Kermit is useful on some sorts of machines, and for specific purposes, but this idea is getting mixed up with what is the most useful DOS comm program(s), the one(s) most used. THATs where the market is. Its not a matter of "is kermit cool, is kermit good enough, is kermit free?", its a matter of "will the target users actually use it, or anything based on it?" I'd suggest again that the answer is "no". That's all. Not meaning to insult anyone who's fave term prog. is kermit. Just trying to suggest a clarified view of the PC telecom program market. People make new comm programs all the time, many with a LOT of features. But they ain't the Big Three, so they get ignored. Perhaps sadly. -- When marriage is outlawed only outlaws will be inlaws! Stanton McCandlish, SysOp: Noise in the Void DataCenter Library BBS Internet anton@hydra.unm.edu IndraNet: 369:1/1 FidoNet: 1:301/2 Snail: 1811-B Coal Pl. SE, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87108 USA Data phone: +1-505-246-8515 (24hr, 1200-14400 v32bis, N-8-1) Vox phone: +1-505-247-3402 (bps rate varies, depends on if you woke me up...:)