Re: Letter of the law

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

Ken,

I guess I was thinking about the NSA, recording the message and deciding to make an example. They seem to do that occassionally just to keep the rest of us folks 'in line'. I can't see the INS even understanding what they were looking at, even if you showed them. "My, my, my! All those bits are really in that little box?" You have to understand the difference between a 'large possibility' and a 'fat chance', yes?

yep.

Now, drugs! That they understand ... But a PKI key? Or, a file?? Or, a crypto program (especially renamed)??? What piece of this trick question am I missing?

actually, you are right on target with your comments. IMO, you didn't miss anything. i was simply referring to my dislike of random body cavity searches and harassment by US Customs and customs officials in other countries (i travel alot and have been subjected to alot of bullshit). so far, Japan was the worst of all the countries i have visited (18 at last count in Europe and Asia alone). they saw my waist-length hair, tattoos and US passport....well, you can guess the rest. TATTOOMAN

Bob De Witt, rdew@el.nec.com The views expressed herein are my own, and are not attributable to any other source, be it employer, friend or foe.

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From jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu Tue Feb 17 10:56:22 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu: jkwilli2 owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:56:29 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Williams X-Sender: jkwilli2@c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu To: Bob De Witt cc: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Letter of the law X-Copyright: The contents of this message may not be reproduced in any form X-Copyright: (including Commercial use) unless specific permission is granted X-Copyright: by the author of the message. All requests must be in writing. X-Disclaimer: The contents of this email are for educational purposes only X-Disclaimer: and do not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself X-Disclaimer: or my employer and are not endorsed by sponsored by or provided X-Disclaimer: on behalf of North Carolina State University. MIME-Version: 1.0

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

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Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute an act of export??

well, yes, of course. that was taken for granted in my comments. likewise, if you go to a tattoo parlor and get the infamous 4 line crypto-sig tattooed on your ass, then you are classified as a munition, and you cannot leave the US.

the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over... ;-)

ken

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I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this.. I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually walk there from my house it's so close) If I write a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp it to a web page I have on a server outside the US will I have avoided the foolish export regs?? Does anyone know of someone trying this before??

My guess is this: if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have a plausable excuse if ever taken to court. after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself" accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't cross the border. I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged. then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity. It's easier to ask forgivness than permission... Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up "typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit international copy... -Anon2

i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp. as long as all the packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be violating any laws in this case.

Regards,

TATTOOMAN

http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/

Bob De Witt, rdew@el.nec.com The views expressed herein are my own, and are not attributable to any other source, be it employer, friend or foe.

TATTOOMAN

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